Talk:Rigellian

Two Rigelians
Do we really need two pages for Rigelians? There's one race, called Rigelians and apparently similar to Vulcans in some unknown way, which was never seen. There's another race of sentient turtles, which was never called Rigelians on-screen. If we strictly followed our own guidelines, that second race shouldn't even be called Rigelian here, and for all we know those two could in fact be the same species - I think it might be best to keep the turtles on the one and only article about Rigelians. -- Cid Highwind 22:59, 20 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * Were the turtle Rigelians mentioned in TMP script? If not that means they are not canon right? Does backstage info count? Rebelstrike2005 23:01, 20 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * Behind the scenes has counted around here as long as I have followed and the two Rigelians have lasted this long without question. Otherwise we have a LOT of stuff to delete, if we are not accepting behind the scene inforation such as this. --Gvsualan 23:10, 20 Feb 2005 (GMT)

"Behind the scenes" information is not accepted unanimously, but this is not necessarily what I'm talking about. Even if we accept the turtle "Rigelians" (open for debate), we still can't conclude from that the existance of more than one species called "Rigelian". Rigelians were called "vulcanoid", but with Vulcans basically being humans with pointy ears and copper-based blood, and nearly every other sentient species in the universe called "humanoid", can we really presume that those turtles aren't vulcanoid? I don't think so... -- Cid Highwind 23:21, 20 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * I believe this is the same case as the USS Yorktown article i worked on -- we can't prove that the Yorktowns were the same vessel, but we cant prove they were different either, so i list them in one article, under the simplest name, and put separate subsections for each uncertain ship (or species in this case) -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 03:25, 21 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * Well from what I saw of the Rigelians in they really didn't appear to have the physique of a turtle. If so, they are going to have to do some esquisite make-up magic to fit a turtle face behind that. --Gvsualan 03:50, 21 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * I don't know if that is an argument considering the way they have altered other alien make-up for ENT. I support keeping both of these on one page, now it comes back to the question I posed that spun this whole debate. here. Tyrant 04:17, 21 Feb 2005 (GMT)Tyrant


 * The makeup in ENT has not changed significantly enough to make your point valid, in my opinion. Also, having gotten a better look at the Rigelians in "Affliction" from various screen caps, they certainly don't have shells (if indeed the TMP ones had something of the sort) - and they definately lacks the "beak". If anything, and that is a big IF, they bare resembelance, at least from the shadows, to the Na'kuhl or Remans, superficially --> see: File:Rigelian kidnapper.jpg. Now if we want to play with the theory that there are two races native to Rigel called Rigelians, or perhaps the fact there may be more than one planet in Rigel that developed two types of "Rigelians", I, for one, cannot accept that these are supposed to be one in the same. --Gvsualan 06:08, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * The question, as I see it, isn't whether the Rigelians of Enterprise are the same as these Rigelians (clearly, they're not), but whether, given the on-screen evidence from Enterprise, we should still refer to these turtle guys as Rigelians at all. Yes, that's what Phillips & Fletcher called them, but since they weren't called that on-screen, we're left with a choice: either there are two completely dissimilar species, both called Rigelians, or the turtle-guys seen in TMP have another name.  Despite the authorial intent of Phillips and Fletcher, I think Occam's razor favors the second explanation.  I think that this page should either be deleted, or the note at the bottom expanded to indicate that the Enterprise Rigelians (named on-screen as such) may cast doubt on whether these turtles are Rigelians also. --Josiah Rowe 06:38, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * There being two species of Rigelian's is a distinct possibility, especially if they are from the same world, we have many Xindi afterall. My original point was that keeping both on the same page (with some rework) allows us to keep unclear references to Rigelian's open to either species. Tyrant 13:46, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)Tyrant


 * I support the one page solution for the Rigelians, because by error the Saurians were named Rigelians in Fandom for quite a while. -- Kobi - (   ) 14:46, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)


 * The solution that seems to have worked is to have the "Rigelians" (with one "l") on one page and the "Rigellians" (with two "l"s) on this page. They appear to be different species to me, and there is nothing forbidding two species having similar names.  As to including them at all, the revised canon policy permits this type of article (but it does need a notation as to it being non-canon).  Aholland 05:48, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That depends on the source for the spelling difference. Is it from a script or closed captioning or what? Anyone know? Jaf 00:46, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf


 * The script for, which I believe is the only "true" script available that references their name spells it with one "L". How is it spelled in whatever source references the "turtle aliens" with the similar name? --Alan del Beccio 01:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there one? Jaf 01:19, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf


 * RE: Aholland: There is of course the mess with Tarellians, Terellians, Terrelians, and Terrellians, all are apparently equally similar and equally confusing spellings for at least 3 different species, based on the various descriptions for "T-r-lians", so there is at least some support for the statement that "there is nothing forbidding two species having similar names." --Alan del Beccio 01:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Scratch that, there are two distinctly different looking species that carry the same name, Terrellians, to make up to 5 different species carring similar name spellings. --Alan del Beccio 01:12, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The answer to the question as to the spelling is to look in the only source that exists for this alien: Fletcher and Phillips in The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.  It has two "L"s.  Aholland 03:31, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect Information
The only information I know of for the Rigellians comes from the notes of Bob Fletcher and Fred Phillips, available for review in The Making of Star Trek The Motion Picture. There are significant differences between this article and those notes. There is nothing in the notes about them having outgrown their shells and being forced to manufacture new shells. There is nothing to indicate they are, in fact, Federation members; they could have simply been visiting. There is nothing to indicate they come from Rigel IV. There is nothing in the article to reflect, from the notes, that they "learned to walk upright. Range from five nine to seven feet and over." There is also nothing in the article about the two other functions of the attendants: to "serve" and "care" for them in addition to bringing food. Unless someone has a different citation for the notes, I believe the article needs to be modified accordingly. Aholland 05:48, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Non-Canon
Please see Memory Alpha talk:Canon policy regarding this article being labelled "non-canon" before making further changes. Aholland 06:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, about making the change earlier. I was under the impression that some of the info was actually canon (they did show up on-screen and looked like turtles). The Making of... stuff is technically "non-canon" according to the canon policy, but not the appearance on . That section needs to be reworded somewhat and a citation in the article needs to be provided to TMP.--Tim Thomason 06:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

If the article was "unnamed Turtle alien" and merely said that they existed, you'd be right and that much would be canon. However, all the information about this species in the article is from notes that Phillips and Fletcher made up. I understand your point and will try to make the distinction in the article. Aholland 06:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Did the Rigellians really appeared on screen? If so, which scene is it? Where are they? KiTeLetZ 12:20, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Reptilian
Turtles are reptiles, true. However, why are we making up stuff about them being reptilian when, for all we know, the "turtles" the Rigelliens are decended from are amphibians? Since they are not turtles from Earth, they could even be mammals or something else altogether. The point is since the sum total of our knowledge of this species is about four lines of truncated text, I suggest we simply stick to the notes as is and leave it be. I am removing the line, although if someone can point to other production material Fletcher and Phillips came up with that said they were reptilian, I'll be happy to see it back in. Aholland 03:31, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Beaked Aliens?
It might be a jump but has anyone considered that the Unnamed humanoids (24th century) Beaked aliens from DS9 might be the same as these Rigellians? Feb 25th 2007 Andorian sushi
 * It is possible, but they are different enough that it is only speculation. It could not be said for sure. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)