Talk:Guinan

Bald Man
Under "Geordi La Forge" it states, referencing Picard; "she replied she was attracted to bald men, because long ago one saved her life (Picard had "saved" the 19th century Guinan by remaining with her as she was injured by a time portal, as help came by)." In the actual episode, she never mentioned a "bald man saving er life". I believe the exact line was; "A bald man was kind to me once, when I was hurting." --ZellDenver 10:20, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

On Grammer
Could someone please work on the grammar??? This page clearly wasn't written by a native English speaker and, though informative, it's kind of a headache to read. Maybe I'll do it myself at some point, but it would be nice to have help/a head start from someone.


 * I'm not a native speaker of English indeed, but I tried to write it in my best possible English. I'm not aware of any grammer/spelling errors. If not too many, could you please point them out..? Ottens 21:14, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You spelled grammar incorrectly.


 * Its kind of ironic you spelled "grammar" incorrectly. But I agree, it needs re-writing, especially the use of "former" and "latter".
 * What is ironic about it? He's asking for help, conceding that he's not the one for the job. You sure sound like you are, though, so, go get editing. Let me tell you what else, though: While not exactly ironic, it's hilarious that almost three years have passed... way to take the mick.

categorization
Should Guinan be categorized under Category:USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E) personnel? I don't recall her on board the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E), only that in she was at the wedding. But I could be wrong. — THOR 01:22, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * She was never seen aboard the Enterprise-E. While she was present at the Riker/Troi wedding, this doesn't proof she was aboard the E. Ottens 19:58, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Featured article discussion (archived 6/21/05)

 * Guinan. (Self nomination). Heavily expanded over the past few days. Ottens 11:52, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support--Scimitar 16:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support AmdrBoltz 18:08, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support zsingaya 21:16, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose until concerns regarding excessive image use are resolved. -- Michael Warren | Talk 17:20, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - I reckon the number of images is better now. zsingaya 14:14, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose Until the article has been gone over by an editor; the grammar is atrocious, and the sentence structure not much better. -- Jim Schofield 2 Jul 2005

Featured article discussion (archived 7/24/05)
Self nomination. Nomination was previously objected because there were far too many images on the page. That number has now been reduced to an acceptable figure for a medium-sized page. The page featured all available information on her history (with information from nearly all episodes she made a notable appearanced on) as well as an extensive "Personal relationships" section. Ottens 11:47, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. It looks much better now. I've corrected a few of the spelling and grammatical errors. I also corrected the glaring error of Picard giving Guinan a bottle of Saurian brandy when it was in fact Aldebaran whiskey. I think that a bit can be added on Guinan attempting to teach Data about humour but other than that I think the article is easily worthy.--Scimitar 21:54, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Support very complete well written.
 * I believe you have to be a signed up member of MA to vote for Featured Articles. - AJHalliwell 03:29, 16 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Well done, all! 1729 17:26, 17 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Tobyk777 17, July 2005
 * Hold, I ask for a postponement until a slight edit conflict can be addressed on the talk page. - AJHalliwell 23:10, 17 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I suppose as my only problem with the page is the pictures, I'll Support the article, and the picture issue can be resolved after it's featured, or in process, but shouldn't affect the process. I support it for the content. - AJHalliwell 10:13, 20 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * Edit conflict resolved, save for slight dispute over image. This should be resolved on Images for deletion as I nominated the image AJHalliwell uploaded for deletion. Ottens 09:39, 20 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Contrary to the image issue, a picture of young Guinan from still does not appear on the page. --Alan del Beccio 05:46, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Not any more it doesn't. I added a picture of her as a child in the appropriate section.--Scimitar 07:59, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Re: Q
In Deja Q, didn't Q have a line to the effect of, "She's a far more dangerous creature than you realize"? I don't recall the exact phrasing; but if I'm right, someone who does should probably add the quote to this article.
 * If my source is correct, the exact line is this;
 * "This creature is not what she appears to be. She's an imp -- where she goes trouble always follows."
 * Think it should be added to the article?--Vercalos 07:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I do. The character's nature is such a mystery, I think any comment from a being like Q that alludes to her true nature carries significance. I'll have to watch for the episode again, though -- I could have sworn he called her "dangerous." Maybe not.

The quotation in question comes from

The "dangerous" quotation the original poster is asking about comes from, after Guinan stabs Q's hand in Ten Forward: "This is a dangerous creature. You have no idea... how could Picard allow her to join the crew and not me..." --Fastolfe 03:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Q_Who- Which brings up the obvious question, if she is so helpful to the enterprise, what exactly does Q mean when he calls her an Imp? She obviously has powers capable of affecting Q for he flinches at the sight of her. Is she an Imp of the galaxy who has merely been charmed by the sweet music of federation culture, or is she specifically an Imp from the perspective of the Q who generally are unaccustomed to interference in their plans. Or perhaps she is just an Imp who serves a powerful deamon, Humanity.
 * I think that people overthink this too much. Guinan is from a race of listeners and has traveled widely over centuries.  It is possible that Q simply fears her powers of persuasion, perception (either from her species or from her Nexus encounter), and ability to influence others.  Q is a troublemaker, and like Picard, Guinan has a habit of stopping troublemaking.  As for the little hand gesture she gives in "Q Who", it may be nothing more than the equivalent to a Catholic making the sign of the cross or the millions who have tokens to protect from the "evil eye", a cultural religious/superstitious habit.  In other words, she is an imp to Q simply because she buzz kills his fun.

Conflict in sequence of events
Picard dropped his foil and started toward her in concern. Suddenly Guinan was up and on him in a flurry of thrusts, and actually knocked the foil from his hand.

Which was it? I don't have access to the episode... Renegade54 12:41, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't either, but I think the former should be lowered his foil rather than dropped his foil. In fact, in a certain context, it probably is synonamous, rather like "He dropped his guard".--Vercalos 07:28, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ahhhh, now *that* makes sense... thanks! -- Renegade54 07:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Is Guinan an Angel ?
—MJBurrage 15:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Wise and very caring.
 * Powerful (she scares Q), but yet she prefers to help quietly.
 * She can tell when the Space-Time continuum is "wrong"
 * The way she talked about her "father"
 * She used to live in heaven
 * She almost always sports a halo.
 * Soren is a stereotypical "fallen angel," and his name is almost Satan


 * No, she's El-Aurian. --Jörg 15:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Right, but who are they? Maybe there all "angels."  What I was asking is, Do we know what Roddenberry based the character on, or what he originally planned to do with the character.  Because the above list is kind odd and/or interesting if their just another alien.  I can remember takling with friends back in the day about whether Guinan was Picard's gardian angel. —MJBurrage 18:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Those are interesting observations, but we need some kind of source to show intent. Jaf 18:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf

I believe that regardless of the cultural moral attitude that 20th century humans might have regarding her behavior and actions, that there is more evidence to support the claim that Roddenberry intended her to be, if anything, a galactic meddler... which I suppose is precisely how an atheist might describe both angelic and demonic forces.

On this note the moment that I stand convinced that God sits on his Throne in Heaven which is conincidently the Nexus, is the day that I will be certain that this so called God of which people speak is in fact as evil as Q if not worse and must be stopped at all cost.

And by the way, Soren sounds much more like Soren Kirekegard than Satan to me and he is one enlightenment philosopher whom the Catholic church would not readily label as evil. For what its worth... personally I see no conection between Soren and Soren unless it is in Roddenberry's insinuation that his Soren was once a very different person.

And on a final note can we not at least agree that Roddenberry was the type of person who would be far more interested in the philosophies of liberation and the subsequent symbolic meaning of mythological creatures than in litteral/fundalmentalist relegious concepts?

Oh, and if a question is followed by a period that can be used to indicate its rhetorical nature, for all those gramar Nazi's out there!?!?+/-infinium And in case you didn't notice Keroac killed, the comma, and, the paragraph:!:  j/k As I am sure Roddenberry himself would say, that which we call language exists so deeply at the root of our perception of our existence that its modes and forms cannot so easily be replaced or destroyed.

The DELTA Quadrant?!
There's no evidence anywhere that Guinan's race, the El-Aurians, are from the Delta Quadrant. I've never even heard that conjecture before, but I suppose I know where it's coming from...Just because they had been assimilated by the Borg doesn't mean they were from the same quadrant as the Borg; the Borg had already expanded deep into the Beta Quadrant and possibly the Gamma Quadrant as well by the 23rd Century ( established that much, and Voyager further made it clearer just how vast Borg territory really is). The only place where the Borg don't actually seem to have any territory is the Alpha Quadrant.

The El-Aurian homeworld is more likely somewhere in the vicinity of System J-25, since Picard said that Guinan was "familar with this region of space." As stated by Data in "Q Who", System J-25 is only 7,000 light years away from the Federation, which would therefore place it in the Beta Quadrant (the Delta Quadrant is at its very closest more like 30,000 light years away).

Furthermore, Guinan, Soran, and many other El-Aurians were fleeing the Borg in Generations, and the Enterprise-B was within range to intercept their transport ships when it was still in the Solar System. It takes decades to get from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant, even at high warp, unless of course you've got help from a time-travelling Admiral from the future. If the Borg attack on the El-Aurian planet had happened recently at the time of Generations, which "Q Who" would seem to indicate it had, there's no possible way they could have made it all the way from the Delta Quadrant in that short a period of time (unless they obtained a transwarp or quantum slipstream drive somehow, found a hitherto undiscovered wormhole, or used a Borg transwarp hub, all of which are even wilder and more unsubstantiated conjectures).

I'm going to remove the assertion that Guinan is from the Delta Quadrant unless someone can bring up some concrete canonical evidence that that is the case. I won't say that she's from the Beta Quadrant, since people will undoubtedly argue with me about that too, but to say flat-out that she's from the Delta Quadrant is a bit too far fetched, IMO.

And to think, people got on my case about the Fen Domar... --Antodav 01:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Not that you need it, but just to add some further support to your claim, there is no information in the entry on El-Aurians that indicates them living in the Delta Quadrant, and you would think it would be more likely to be there than in the article on Guinan. --OuroborosCobra 01:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Don’t suppose the fact that Soren has nanoprobes supports this points as it's not certain they're Borg nanoprobes; even if they were they could've come from a wrecked vessel in the Alpha Quadrant, as in "Timeless". So I'll shut up--Archer4real (talk) 14:36, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Er... nanoprobes? Huh? (And do you mean Tolian Soran?) -- sulfur (talk) 14:57, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Guinan and Picard
It's possible I missed it, but it seems this article does not mention Guinan's first meeting with Picard, in 1893. It mentions that she existed in Earth's nineteenth century, that she liked bald men because one was kind to her once, and her and Picard's unusual relationship. But it omits the circumstances of their first meeting, which seem to be noteworthy.
 * I found the same thing. There is virtually nothing in this article about the events of "Time's Arrow", an episode that probably told us as much about Guinan as any episode.  The events are more than noteworthy; they're essential to the article. I'm unsure of where they should be put into the article, though.  Maybe when it is first mentioned that Guinan was on Earth in the late 19th century? --Mste0819 00:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Guinan "hiding" on Earth?
The article makes two mentions of Guinan hiding from her father on Earth. I don't believe she suggests that she is hiding. She asks if her father had sent Data, and continues by asking him to go back and tell him that she isn't finished there. This suggests that her father knows why she is there.
 * I agree. the inference is there that she is simply there for her own curiosity.  On a side note, please sign your posts. -- 6/6  Subspace 07:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Extra-temporal perception a feature of her species?
Under Alternate Timelines, the article mentions that Guinan is aware of the changed timeline because her species has an intrinsic awareness of these sorts of things. This was never established as fact, however. Data merely speculated that this may be the case. 


 * Agreed; it's equally likely that her experience with the Nexus gave her this perception. The sentence should be changed to reflect this uncertainty.

I personally prefer the Nexus explanation, although it's obviously a retcon never anticipated during the production of YE. During the events of YE, Guinan was just as perplexed as anybody else: "Every fiber in my being says this is a mistake. I can't explain it to myself, so I can't explain it to you. I only know that I'm right." If the ability to be sensitive to disruptions in the timeline were a typical characteristic of her species, Guinan would presumably have been aware of that fact and not quite so confused; she could have stated simply that she was aware of the disruption because that awareness is an ability of her species. The I-don't-know-how-I-know-I-only-know-that-I-know thing suggests that there's something far more unusual and mysterious going on here. I modified the article to clarify that Data's explanation is speculative. Captrek 23:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Guinan post-generations
Anyone know what happened to Guinan after the Enterprise-D crashed in Generations? Was there just no place for a nice bartender on E? 137.222.228.35 14:37, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's unknown whether or not she served aboard the Enterprise-E, but she was present at Riker & Troi's wedding reception in . --From Andoria with Love 22:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
''Guinan has a well-known taste for large hats. The first time she is seen without a hat is on the fencing court in "I, Borg"; the first time she is seen without headgear of any kind is in Star Trek Generations. (When in Human costume, or disguise, in "Clues" or "Time's Arrow", she accessorized with an era-appropriate hat.)''

I thought we were against trivia, this seems a rather trivial note, should it be removed? – Morder 10:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the "taste for large hats" is notable here. I think the rest are notable in the relevant episode/movie pages. --TribbleFurSuit 18:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If any information about Guinan's hats should occur in the article at all, I think it needs to be reworded; the phrasing in the current article is a bit awkward.


 * Also, Guinan's love of hats is about the character so I don't think it should be in the background section, because that section seems to be about production information. To be honest, I'm not sure where the hat information fits best. I suppose the information about Guinan's specific appearances without a hat could be moved to the appropriate episode/movie pages, as TribbleFurSuit suggested. The general information about Guinan's love of hats could be reworded as follows:


 * Among Guinan's well-known character traits is her fondness for large hats. She is rarely seen without one, even when she is in human costume or disguise, such as in "Clues" and "Time's Arrow."


 * Perhaps a more senior contributor can make a determination about the inclusion of this info. Cheers. --PalindromicAnagram 08:30, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Javascript menu at left
Underneath the search box at left is a hierarchical menu. The menu items under > Star Trek > The Next Generation are: Captain Picard, Will Riker, Data, Geordi La Forge, Dr. Crusher, Worf, Deanna Troi, Wesley, Dr. Pulaski, Tasha Yar, and USS Enterprise-D.

I don't understand why Dr. Pulaski is in that menu and Guinan is not. Neither was ever listed in the main credits. Pulaski had a "Special Appearance" in 20 episodes, and Guinan in 28.
 * I'm not claiming to know but I would say it's because Pulaski was a series regular during the 2nd season while Guinan was randomly strewn throughout the show. &mdash; Morder 00:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Another name
I'm wondering why the mention of Guinan once having another name seems to only be a background note; shouldn't this be in the main article?--31dot 22:10, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

ENT story
Guinan was slated to appear in an episode planned for the unproduced fifth season of Star Trek: Enterprise'' entitled "The Treatment". Under the assumed name "Claranna", she would have been acting personal assistant of the head of the United Earth Space Probe Agency. More of her background would have been revealed, including what she was doing there since the time of Mark Twain.''

I removed this since the same story was removed at the ENT article because it lacked a production source. - 13:09, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting Co-incidence?
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanyin 68.148.93.15 18:39, February 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's just that, a coincidence, which is not suitable for the article. Guinan was named for Texas Guinan. 31dot (talk) 01:11, February 13, 2013 (UTC)