Talk:Battle of Sector 001

Nomination
After DarkHorizon performed some major rewriting on the article and after i added some pics (Sorry DarkHorizon!), i'd say this looks like a featured article to me... --BlueMars 00:12, Jun 28, 2004 (CEST)
 * Support, of course. -- Michael Warren 00:45, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Support. I just finished some minor editing on this myself. -- Dan Carlson 02:12, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Support. I get the feeling there are still things to be said in this article, but the bulk of it is ready. And done fairly quickly and well, I might add. My compliments. -- Redge 11:22, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Seconded. Good work, Ottens 11:28, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)

Reconfirmation
FA from 2004, haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure if it's still up to snuff. - 05:21, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Support: makes for a generally enjoyable, enlightening read, IMO. --Defiant 12:51, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose: While the in-universe writing is up to specs, after my exhaustive stint to get the Battle of Wolf 359-article up to specs, I'm not going with this one, which DOES need some serious updating in the BG-section (there is enough out there on Jaegers' contributions, go find out) but I'll leave that to others. For a major happenstance in the franchise, being part of one of the most successful films before the "RE-INVENTION", it should be better documented--Sennim (talk) 21:33, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I think the in-universe section needs some work as well. This article is about the action in Sector 001, but the fighting in the Typhon sector is just lumped into the "Battle" section, but it was a separate engagement, no?Also, I don't remember from the movie either the USS Bozeman surviving or Starfleet engaging the Cube constantly the way to Earth.

You are incorrect, the page is about the presumably continuous battle that started in the Typhon sector and ended at Earth after presumably several hours of fighting. Nothing was outright said either way, but there are several details to at least suggest a "continuous" fight. There's more of course, but those two are enough IMO to say that the two locations are linked by the same battle, and since the Enterprise was able to catch up in time to stop the cube, it seems to me that something must have been slowing down the cube between the Typhon sector and Sector 001. Either way, we're not going to create another fan named "battle" page for one paragraph of info that needs to be mentioned here anyway. - 18:15, July 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) It is assumed that "the admiral" whose ship was destroyed by the time the Enterprise arrived was Admiral Hayes, and therefor the ships seen fighting at Earth are at least continuing the battle his ship was known to be in.
 * 2) The last reference to the Bozeman was "...Defiant and Bozeman, fall back to mobile position one...", and we saw the Defiant at Earth, we can't say that the Bozeman was destroyed when the defense perimeter was broken, and we do know that the Defiant was at both locations or at least part of the plans for the first location.

Two Oberths
Just a quick note; there were two Oberth-class ships present during the battle (shown early on in the background).

Manson?
I noticed a recording during the scene where the Enterprise-E crew are listening to the transmission of the battle of a woman saying "This is Commander Luxby of the starship Manson...", I do not know the class of the ship, but you can hear her clearly say it. Maybe we could do some research on it.--NavyAO2(AW) 09:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It's the USS Madison, apparently - Commander Ludwig. :) -- Cid Highwind 09:40, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

From Talk:Starships at the Battle of Sector 001
A good start and I look forward to reading the rest. I smell another featured coming on.

Shouldn't we need to include some more info on Borg incursions in Prelude? It starts by saying: the second incursion.

Perhaps, when we have finished more Borg incursion battles, we can make another one of those footers as we used for the Battles in the Dominion Wars. Like this:

Some of those links are still to episodes, since there aren't seperate pages about the battles yet. -- Redge 22:37, 26 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * Well, I would think twice about making articles about the first two items referenced, since they aren't really suited to a full-length exploratory article, IMO. -- Michael Warren 22:00, 27 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * Would be better to include the second incursion (TNG: Descent). Another question: How about implementing a table in order to sort the images. right now the whole article looks a bit crowded and unsorted. --BlueMars 23:53, Jun 27, 2004 (CEST)


 * I've removed the image of the assimilated Earth from the article; IMO since the battle was already over at this point in the story, the part about the Borg going back in time is really just a footnote to the main account of the battle itself. Just IMO, anyway. :-) -- Dan Carlson 02:05, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)

Should it be suggested that this shows the Federation's ability for homeland defense - zip? I mean, an enemy ship entered Sol. -- Neo Exelor


 * Going by year, it is likely Starfleet was focused mainly on the Dominion at the time.– Fadm tyler 18:38, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

USS Reliant?
Would someone like to provide a little proof (dialog, visual) that there was a USS Reliant in ? --Alan del Beccio 06:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The USS Reliant page gives the info on why it is there.


 * This is a bit ambiguous. The Reliant page merely states the ship was present. Above this data is the line:


 * "This Reliant appeared in an early draft of the script and was not mentioned on screen."


 * I take this to mean this goes with the data from the TNG ep The Measure of the Man. Is it supposed to be from First Contact instead? If so, it should (by convention) be below the First Contact data. --Commander, Starbase 23 16:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

A more complete ship listing for the battle
Hi All,

I just treated myself to the 12 DVD set of ST Movies Directors/Special Edition, and I watched the battle scenes from First Contact this morning. Here's what I found using the thoroughly useful "frame advance" buttons:

Ships mentioned in radio chatter

 * Admiral Hayes flagship, later destroyed
 * Endeavour
 * Bozeman
 * Defiant
 * Lexington
 * Madison

Scene 1 (Before Enterprise arrives)

 * 2 Oberth-class ships
 * 2 Miranda-class ships (closest one may have had the registry NCC-21183, but it is very hard to make out. For all I know, I'm actually seeing NCC-1864 and that's how the Reliant is listed as being at this battle!)
 * 1 Saber-class ship - damaged & drifting, nacelle hit
 * 1 Defiant-class ship (USS Defiant)
 * 1 Akira-class ship - exploded/destroyed
 * & the Millennium Falcon

Scene 2 (the Enterprise arrives)

 * 1 Defiant-class ship (USS Defiant) - abandoned, powerless & intact
 * 1 Norway-class ship
 * 2 Saber-class ships
 * 2 Steamrunner-class ships
 * 2 Akira-class ships
 * 1 Sovereign-class ship (USS Enterprise)

Scene 3 (Picard puts battle on screen)

 * 2 Norway-class ships
 * 4 Saber-class ships
 * 2 Akira-class ships
 * 2 Steamrunner-class ships - 2 exploded/destroyed

Scene 4 (Picard is about to order the Fleet to fire)

 * 1 Norway-class ship
 * 2 Saber-class ships - 1 exploded/destroyed
 * 1 Akira-class ship
 * 1 Steamrunner-class ship - damaged, saucer hit

Scene 5-I (looking at Enterprise)

 * 1 Sovereign-class ship
 * 1 Steamrunner-class ship
 * 1 Nebula-class ship

Scene 5-II (looking at Borg cube)

 * 1 Norway-class ship
 * 2 Steamrunner-class ships - 1 wrecked/destroyed, half saucer blown away; 2nd is indistinct, in top left of the screen
 * 1 Saber-class ship
 * 1 Oberth-class (in the top right as Enterprise moves in on the cube)
 * 1 Akira-class ship

Scene 5-III (looking at First Contact ships)

 * 1 Akira-class ship (NCC-63549)
 * 1 Norway-class ship
 * 1 Saber-class ship

Scene 5-IV (looking at First Contact ships)

 * 1 Akira-class ship
 * 1 Steamrunner-class ship
 * 1 Sovereign-class ship

Scene 5-V (as cube is exploding)

 * 2 Norway-class ships
 * 2 Steamrunner-class ships - 1 exploded/destroyed, caught in cube explosion
 * 1 Sovereign-class ship
 * 2 Akira-class ships

Going by this the Steamrunner class took quite a beating in this battle, with 4 ships destroyed and 1 damaged of 11 seen on screen.

P.S. Can someone tell me why this page wouldn't put in line-breaks necessitating all this space between ship classes? --Commander, Starbase 23 17:06, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Asterisks are your friend, I fixed it up for you ;) - Enzo Aquarius 17:10, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Thanks muchly, Enzo, I appreciate it. :-) --Commander, Starbase 23 17:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Conclusion
Assuming each of the ships could have been the same ones appearing in subsequent scenes, we have at least:
 * The Enterprise
 * The Defiant
 * 2 Oberth-class ships
 * 2 Miranda-class ships
 * 5 Saber-class ships (1 damaged, 1 destroyed)
 * 3 Akira-class ships (1 destroyed)
 * 2 Norway-class ships
 * 6 Steamrunner-class ships (4 destroyed, 1 damaged, and assuming the earlier damaged ones are not repaired and seen "as new")
 * 1 Nebula-class ship

Assuming each ship seen in each scene is a different ship, we have at most:
 * The Enterprise
 * The Defiant
 * 3 Oberth-class ships
 * 2 Miranda-class ships
 * 11 Saber-class ships (1 damaged, 1 destroyed)
 * 11 Akira-class ships (1 destroyed)
 * 8 Norway-class ships
 * 11 Steamrunner-class ships
 * 1 Nebula-class ship

With these stats, we should modify the number of "additional ships" for each class listed as being at the battle. --Commander, Starbase 23 20:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Plus one YT class "the fastest hunk of junk now in 2 galaxies" the Millennium Falcon PS: was she destroyed in the battle? 156.33.195.254 12:47, May 27, 2012 (UTC) Can we list the ships here in order of appearance or is this going by the radio chatter?--Spock78 (talk) 20:09, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Forum:Merge.. I want to merge a page into an other... how to start dicsussion
Hi. I want to merge the page Starships at the Battle of Sector 001 into the page Battle of Sector 001 because I feel that the page about the Starships in the battle should be listed in the page about the Battle.

what i want help with: how and where to start a discussion about mergin the page into the other page.

I don't want to merge it directly, i want to hear the opinion from the MA first before I do it. I hope that it is the best. please help me with this, you will get my gratitude.--Örlogskapten 22:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

ps. I already started a topic in both pages talk-page...


 * Add the template on one page, and bring it up for discussion at the end of the talk page as to what you suggest is done.  An admin will have to merge the pages to do it properly though. -- Sulfur 22:49, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

please, i can't make the template you told me to use for starting a mergin discussion work. can you please make it for me?--Örlogskapten 23:01, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge
I think that this page should be merged into Battle of Sector 001 because this page is about the ships that fought in the battle. Can anyone please help me spreading this message on MA and starting a discussion? --Örlogskapten 22:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that the following text should be added to Battle of Sector 001, and becoming the merge:

The following is a partial list of Federation starships that fought in the battle.

And at least:
 * 2 unnamed Oberth class starships
 * 2 unnamed Miranda class starships
 * 4 additional unnamed Saber class starships
 * 2 additional unnamed Akira class starships
 * 2 additional unnamed Norway class starships
 * 5 additional unnamed Steamrunner class starships
 * 1 unnamed Nebula class starship
 * 1 other unnamed starship
 * This last starship was a CGI model of the slipped into the battle by ILM effects artist John Knoll.

Does anyone have a better idea or should we put this into Battle of Sector 001? I'm going to ask a admin to merge these articles on the 23th. Unless someone objects.. But please write even if you support my idea. --Örlogskapten 22:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If we do, we should also merge Starships at Wolf 359 with Battle of Wolf 359, Starships in the Dominion War with Dominion War (or their respective battles), and Starships launched from Sol system, Earth dates 2123-2190 with Earth starships (actually, that should probably be merged anyway). We also have Starships visiting Deep Space 9 and Starships visiting Deep Space 9 in 2370 which should either be merged with each other or merged with Deep Space 9. --From Andoria with Love 16:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. We should also do those things. but one step at the time. can we merge this first?--Örlogskapten 20:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * All of these (re:Shran's list) are examples of pages that might exist if their content would be "too much" if put in the main article, but don't necessarily need to. In this case, I think that merging as suggested would be a good idea, because this list is rather short and there are only a few incoming links. That doesn't mean that all other lists should automatically be merged as well... -- Cid Highwind 18:21, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

A True Victory?
The article makes it sound as if it were a hard-won victory for Starfleet against the cube. But I wonder if this is accurate, given that the cube's incursion was just a cover for the real objective. The cube may therefore have not fought at full capability, while at the same time not being too easy to defeat, which would certainty have made Starfleet smell a rat. Input?– Watching...listening... 22:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I would just say in the end we won since the Enterprise went back in time to thwart the other plans anyway. As for the actual battle, with Picard's help more damage was done to the cube than the Borg probably anticipated. So yeah, I'd say it's a clear victory. &mdash; Morder 21:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd also question this idea that the cube was only a "cover" for the "real objective", which I assume you mean the sphere and the time travel. I've always thought the sphere was just a plan B in case plan A, the cube, failed. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Spheres part in the plot wasn't part of the actual battle, that was the Cube's part. Since they beat the Cube, they won that battle. – Fadm tyler 13:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Decisive?
Many of you may know I am seriously not a fan of these adjective qualifiers being put in the sidebars of these battles to describe what "type" of victory or defeat it was, especially when it wasn't ever described as such in canon. It is fanboyish and personal opinion. Take this page, which describes this battle as a "decisive" Federation victory. Considering the loss of 30 some odd starships and a fleet at the Typhon sector that seemed to get smashed even faster than the one at Wolf 359, and that the ultimate result at the end of the "battle proper" was the escape of the Borg sphere and Queen, followed by the assimilation of Earth and destruction of the Federation, I find the claim "decisive victory" a bit hard to swallow. Its those 30 ships, nearly half the defending fleet, that really gets me. I'm removing "decisive". --OuroborosCobra talk 21:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Is this line really necessary?
This comes from the continuity section:

''Another continuity error was generated in the film's teaser trailer – the registration on the hull of an Intrepid-class vessel clearly identifies it as being the USS Voyager, which was in the Delta Quadrant at the time. However, this same trailer showed footage of the USS Enterprise-D, which had already been destroyed. The footage of both Voyager and the Enterprise-D never showed up in the final release of the film. The clip of Voyager has not appeared anywhere else, other than in the trailer.''

I'm not sure this info is really applicable here, since it comes from a teaser trailer and not the actual film... --Nero210 06:10, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

USS Freedom
Was the USS Freedom indeed at the battle seen in first contact? &mdash; Morder (talk) 10:18, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, it was in Wolf 359 only, in terms of Borg battles. --OuroborosCobra talk 10:34, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, that wasn't the Freedom, which is never seen in canon. It was the Freedom class Firebrand. --OuroborosCobra talk 10:35, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Good point. I was pretty sure it was only at Wolf but I thought I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt. &mdash; Morder (talk) 10:42, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Erroneous info
I removed:

because it's a misinterpretation. Data was estimating how long it would take the Enterprise to get from wherever they were at the beginning of the movie (we don't know where, exactly), to the Typhon sector, not how long it would take to get from the Neutral Zone to Earth. -Angry Future Romulan 19:48, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * the engagement would nontheless have had to have lasted about the length suggested for the Enterprise to get there and the battle to still be happening, given that general relativity doesnt happen much in star trek. i would say the exact statement was a little vague, but not necessarily wrong as such. --88.104.134.171 06:24, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

We don't know how long it took for the Enterprise to get from the Neutral Zone to Earth. -Angry Future Romulan 19:48, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Where does the Battle of Sector 001 truely end
Indeed, where does the Battle of Sector 001 truely actually end. Current article considers THE WHOLE MOVIE from the point when Borg reach Earth vicinity as "The Battle of Sector 001". I find that a bit odd. Shouldn't the battle end without a clear victory from either side, as the cube blows up, and the rest of the movie should be "Enterprise vs. Queen's Sphere" as something to be considered unrelated aftermath to the actual Battle? --Pseudohuman 10:04, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the "war" may have continued, but the battle was over when the Cube was destroyed. The Sphere broke off to do something else.  The article could be renamed to include the entire conflict(although this would seem to duplicate most of the plot summary at the movie's article). 31dot 11:40, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

USS Voyager
''The films first teaser trailer shows scenes of the Enterprise-D (destroyed in the previous film) and the USS Voyager (stranded in the Delta Quadrant at the time). The scene with Voyager shows the vessel firing multiple phaser beams at a Borg Cube.''

Was this movie to start in the Delta Quadrant with Voyager trying to stop the attack before the Borg arrived in Sector 001? because I've seen every Voyager episode and can not find the shot of Voyager firing at a Borg Cube like the one on this page, most of the time on Voyager (like Scorpion, Dark Frontier) the Borg are more or less working with the crew to stop the bigger threats. 156.33.195.254 12:55, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * The scene of USS Voyager fighting the Cube was created for and is only used in the teaser trailer not anywhere in the Voyager series. I haven't seen any information of any draft of the script that includes USS Voyager in any capacity. I think it is more likely that the USS Voyager model was just reused to represent some other ship fighting the cube at the Battle of Sector 001. Keeping in mind that the teaser trailer was released before the cgi of the film was completed, so at that point they only had physical models and reused footages to go with. --Pseudohuman 19:56, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Removed
I deleted the following in-universe sentence from this article:

"It has been noted that, from the point of the initial Borg attack to a distress call being sent, the attack lasted just over forty seconds."

I'm not sure about the source of this statement but it doesn't seem to be the film. I'm curious if anyone can cite this information, as it has lacked a citation for quite a while. --Defiant (talk) 14:42, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

I also removed this speculation:

"Given the fact that the Borg cube complemented 129,000 and the sphere allowed 11,000 on-board, it's possible that Lt. Commander Data and the other Federation ships destroyed at least 118,000 drones on-board the cube." --Defiant (talk) 09:29, July 3, 2013 (UTC)