Talk:Borg/archive

Compliments

 * "The Borg have no culture. Their sole purpose is the assimilation of other beings. To them, art, music, leisure, all are irrelevant."

I love this sentence. Very dramatic! -- Redge 12:15, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * This is a perfect sentence.– Enterprise E 23:05, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Sector 001 link
We really have to make up a name for the battle in, because a lot of articles link, or should link to it. I have titled the link "Battle of Sector 001". Does that sound about right? -- Redge 16:52, 26 Jun 2004 (CEST)

I see I wasn't the first to create a link to that page. Never mind what I said. Who would like to make a first pass at creating the page? -- Redge 16:57, 26 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * Battle of Sector 001 sounds good. It is interesting that it was never stated in the episodes of DS9 following the Borg attack. It was stated in Inferon Light as "the latest Borg threat".– Enterprise E 13:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Just as a note, this is a 2 year old conversation that has already been resolved. ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius...I'm listening 14:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Try 3 years... and this is exactly why obsolete text should be removed. It just confuses people. --Alan 20:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Images
Why don't we have the Borg's symbol. Isn't it a large red hand?


 * I'll implement it right away, however not here, but on Borg Collective --BlueMars 22:38, Jun 30, 2004 (CEST)

In line with the image policy of three images per page, why don't we move the Borg Queen's picture to the Borg Queen's page. Two birds and all that...

I don't know what your policies are with regard to images. But if the Borg have a symbol, I think it should be in this article. I definitely think a cube ship image should be included; the Borg cube is among the most recognized symbols by normal Trek fans (as opposed to Trekkies). I also think, instead of having two unremarkable, closeup head shots of Borg soldiers, you should instead feature a full-body image of a Bord, to show the cybernetics and such. Just my two cents...

Borg in Delta Quadrant
Under the "The Borg in the Delta Quadrant" heading, it says "Insert text here.". Shouldn't that entire section be edited out until it's written? I sort disrupts the continuity of the page. --Mutt 10:20, Jul 17, 2004 (CEST)

Catchphrase
When the Borg introduce themselves to new species, they say "Existence as you know it is over", not "Lower your shields and surrender your ships"; that is from First Contact. This was stated on the alien culture page on StarTrek.com before they reformatted the site.-B-101


 * If you can find a canon reference for this, it'll be okay, but if this was only mentioned on StarTrek.com, the phrase used in First Contact would be better. I doubt this line was used in the series as it sounds very melodramatic. -- Redge | Talk 23:01, 20 Aug 2004 (CEST)


 * Okay, in the original TNG episode they used the melodramatic phrase. However, in ST:FC they used "We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." In some form of another they've used similar wording along VOY. It is possible that the Borg adapt their catchphrase to the situation (for example: Voyager is ship, not ships)


 * In ST:FC it actually was "We are the Borg. Lower you shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." Scorpion part 2 was the episode where the borg sayed (SHIPS) when voyager is one ship. – Enterprise E 13:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Origins - Canon?
Although the updated origins section is interesting, I don't believe it's canon (as defined by Memory Alpha policy). If so, please add refs.LordJuss 13:08, 26 Nov 2004 (CET)


 * It's not, and I'm sure we already removed that story before. As such, I reverted that edit - Datalore, please don't add non-canon information. Thanks. -- Cid Highwind 13:25, 26 Nov 2004 (CET)


 * I thought that it changed from episode to episode, depending on writer's needs (which is exactly why the Borg name never showed up in "Regeneration"). --Lenonn 18:01, 22 Mar 2005 (EST)

Borg Flash site
What is the use of this? (see history) A Featured Article shouldn't be the place to have advertisements for private homepages. IF this flash-site is worth adding, there should be a paragraph like "external links", or am I wrong? -- Florian K 16:34, 17 Jan 2005 (CET)

Borg Origins
Should we add this paragraph to the section dealing with Origins?


 * It has been suggested in William Shatner's novel The Return that the Borg originated from the melding of Commander Willard Decker and the V'Ger in the form of Ilia. Shatner suggests that, when the two disappeared into a trans-temporal conduit, they were returned the homeworld of V'Ger over 1,000 years ago in the past. There is, however, no canon evidence to support this claim.

Ottens 20:31, 28 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * Might save us the trouble of having to correct for people who add it in every other week. I suggest sticking it in there, keep it indented, italicized, and clearly non-canon. Tyrant 20:34, 28 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * Most certainly not, since Shatner does not say this at all. All the book does is link V'Ger with the Borg - the black hole that Voyager VI falls into is a transwarp conduit, and the machine planet was the Borg homeworld. There is no mention made of a temporal shift or that the ascended Decker-V'Ger being founded the Borg, that is all fan speculation - so the paragraph is incorrect. -- Michael Warren | Talk 20:42, Jan 28, 2005 (CET)

Then it shouldn't be included indeed. Ottens 20:44, 28 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * Perhaps what the book does say, whatever that might be, could be added as suggested? I don't really have a position on this one way of the other at this point, heh, however, it seems the logical conclusion to this line of reasoning. Tyrant 20:46, 28 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * It is possible that the Borg are originated in many ways: the Borg are created by the first species which would later had been assimilated, the Borg are created by the extragalactic Combine in purpose of assimilation, or from the Unicomplex itself? --Bryansee 20:50, 26 Aug 2005 Bryansee

The New Cooperative
We have a list of a few species that were members of the 'The New Cooperative', a few of which are built from reference, ie; the Farn and the Parein. And we have a section of Borg that makes a "List of Species seen as Borg Drones". We also have a page for Borg species designations. I propose we better organize this, perhaps a page or Borg article section with all species known to have been assimilated, built out of both sightings and references and there we place a link to Borg species designations as well. Jaf 05:21, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Borg species might be a good name for this. Jaf 18:25, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Federation knowledge about the Borg
I have a problem with the following - I don't have the episode itself but I checked the script and found no reference to the Borg whatsoever. Can someone check this by watching the episode ? (I don't remember it ever being said in the episode that the Borg were responsible) -- Q 18:42, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Thus the Borg incursions continued without the Federation's knowledge. The largest of these incursions occurred in 2364 when the Borg wiped out a series of Romulan and Federation outposts in Sector 30 and Sector 31 on the borders of the Romulan Neutral Zone. (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")


 * I also read the script not too long ago and no mention (or real hint) of the Borg is given. I seem to recall a number of years ago when I still had a working copy of the Encyclopaedia (98 ver.) though, that the Borg were credited with these attacks, despite the fact that it wasn't known at the time. Presumably this is revealed in a later episode (Perhaps BOBW-I), but I'm afraid I don't recall that, so either the Borg are said onscreen to have been responsible for it or this was just one of numerous extrapolations by the Okudas shown in the Ency, perhaps because these devastating attacks were never attributed to anyone else we heard of during TNG. If it's the former then it warrants inclusion, and if it's the latter it may just have developed into a mass fan assumption, similar to semi-canon data shown in Technical manuals. - Hayter 23:43, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, although it is not stated that the attacks were the work of the Borg in "The Neutral Zone", there is a line in "Q Who" saying that the pattern of the attacks is identical to the remains of the a civilization attacked in Borg space. TNG lover

You're right. I already changed this in the Borg history article. -- Q 13:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Additionally, it was stated that the outposts appeared to have been scooped off the surface. The reference to a Borg attack was not made directly.

Real-world development of the idea of the Borg

 * The episode (TNG episode) is in two episodes, and there is an end-of-seasons border between them. In the first part, the Borg multiply by cloning themselves, not by assimilating other races, and the implants are implanted by surgery; they raid planets and take their technology. But they capture Picard and as a one-off they put Borg-type implants in him, to control him; but his flesh anatomy remains human. But seeing him with the implants causes an Enterprise'' crewman to say "They've turned him into a Borg".


 * During the gap between seasons, it is likely that a script writer remembered this remark and developed it into the idea of biological assimilation to Borg. And, in the second part, when Picard was rescued, it was noticed that he was being assimilated biologically to Borg, very slowly, spreading from the implants, and this process stopped when the implants were removed by surgery. The classical idea of fast assimilation to Borg developed after (in real world time) that.

I removed the above info because it seems to be speculatory background information and somewhat nitpicky, the latter of which is not allowed as per a Ten Forward conversation. --From Andoria with Love 18:04, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the exact same edit was made to the Wikipedia Borg page a while ago before I reverted that. Aside from the speculation regarding the writers (and surely the dual-episode was written at one time rather than with a large gap following the filming of part 1), I don't recall it ever being said that the Borg's only/primary method of multiplication was cloning. It has been a while since I saw Q, Who though so I could be wrong. - Hayter 23:47, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * The best of Both Worlds Part Two was indeed written quite a while after Part One. Tiberius 04:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In Q Who they don't mention cloning, but they visit what Riker calls "the Borg nursery" containing maturation chambers with infants with implants, though the implants are not as extensive as those in adult drones. Riker speculates that Borg are born biological and are immediately implanted with technology. The crewmember who remarks on Picard becoming a Borg in BOBW1 is Worf: Data informs Riker "The Captain has been altered by the Borg.", Riker queries "Altered...?", to which Worf replies "He is a Borg!". It is never stated that the Borg clone until Voyager (I believe), but we certainly do know from Q Who alone that they reproduce themselves biologically. Only in Voyager do we see their drones being grown ectogenically (outside the biological womb) and with implants already present. It was probably the greater emphasis on Borg nanotechnology featured in Voyager that made the idea of prenatal implants possible. I believe the only Borg nanotechnology reference in TNG was Crusher's mention that the Borg would transform the Federation into nanites, and indirectly in the fact that Borg ship repair as witnessed in Q Who could only be physically possible with mature nanotechnology. As for the development of assimilation, that was almost certainly an idea running through the production of both BOBW episodes - the very point of Picard's transformation in Locutus of Borg was that, as the Borg themselves stated directly to him, they wanted to improve themselves biologically as well as technologically and that in order to ease the resistance of Federation citizens against joining into the Collective, they required a recognizable mouthpiece to represent them during the introduction of the Collective into Federation society.


 * They were both written by Michael Piller, though. Funny, eh? The story is told in the supplemental DVD material on the last Season 3 disc. Piller didn't expect to be back for Season 4 so he wrote BOBW 1 without figuring out how the crisis would be resolved by some other writer later. Well, he got invited back and was like "Oh, man, now what do I do?" 68.124.136.195 02:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Michael Eddington's Federation/Borg comparison
I always liked Michael Eddington's comparison between the Federation and the Borg in. Could it be added here? Ben Sisko 22:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

That was a truly remarkable comparison and the only reason why I enjoyed his character.– Enterprise E 13:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Appearances (obsolete)
In VOY:"One", some Borg drones and the inside of a Borg cube appears as a hallucination by Seven of Nine. Should this count as a appearance?


 * Yes, I believe so.--MatthewFenton 23:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Make it So.


 * Yes they should.– Enterprise E 13:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Borg History
At the moment I am busy rewriting the Borgs history that is present in this article but I also found a separate history article about them. Both articles generally seem to contain about the same information but are written differently. Is there any reason that there are separate history articles and a history part within the main article ? I also noticed this in other species. Has it something to do with the article size ? Its confusing for me to put what where. Any thoughts ? -- Q 12:06, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've moved the info to Borg history, tho it may still need a canon check and some rewriting. I've also moved some other repeticious sections, this article is getting skinny as a result. Jaf 15:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the culture section of this article can be split up and moved to Borg Collective, Hive mind and Borg philosophy. I also feel the Borg starship information should be on it's own page about Borg starships, I was going to move it to Borg starship classes, but that's not the norm with starship class articles. This is an interesting occurrence for a species article, it has almost become a disambig. Jaf 16:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Why all the split ups ? If I look at other species pages, history, physiology etc... are on the main page. As far as I am concerned every species should have a central page from which a reader can explore that species. Granted, not all information about physiology for example should be on the main page but a few explanatory paragraphs about the species should. So the reader gets a general overview. Despite this will cause some overlap with articles which will go indepth about the subject. As you said only links will get this article skinny. I assume that is not what species articles are all about. Displayin a disambiguation page when someone searches for 'Borg' seems rather silly. -- Q 18:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I found that I had to go to more then one place to get info on the same thing and I was often reading the same information twice as a result. I didn't see any need for it. Jaf 22:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Q that the main article for an information-rich species like the Borg should have some teaser paragraphs summarizing the key points of applicable sections like technology or culture and then link to the main article for that specific topic on the species. This appears to be common practice for other species on topics like history and technology (see: Human, Vulcan). - Intricated 00:07, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll take practical over pretty, we need not be repetitious. Jaf 00:31, 18 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf

quotes (??)
the quotes in the middle of this article see really out of place. October 13, 2006

Release of Star Trek Legacy
With the release of this game, they seem to have a little story about the origins of the Borg..
 * Star Trek: Legacy, like all Trek games, is not canon. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Star trek can't be known buy a game no matter what it is about. Some things are correct but Star Trek Legacy is a game based on no proof of past ships. The borg are just the perfect example of the unknown.– Enterprise E 23:09, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Problems
I think this page has major problems. First, there are numerous unsupported assertions throughout, for example the History and Spacecraft sections. Also, there are sweeping statements that are (in addition to being poorly-worded in my opinion) simply too broad and have no citation or support. For example, in the History section: "The Borg always have and probably will continue to assimilate species they consider worthy into their Collective. Not only have the Borg assimilated starships, but entire planets they encounter. After an assessment of the target's tactical strengths and weaknesses, and their worthiness of inclusion into the Borg Collective, the assimilation process begins." Where is the support for this? This article needs SERIOUS work, especially for something as important to the canon as the Borg. -Lt. Cmdr. B. Sutherland
 * The only problem I have with what you quoted is the speculative "always have and probably will continue". All the rest of it is pretty much straight from the Borgs' own onscreen collective mouths.