Talk:Duty shift

I might have a fact reversed. I can't remember if Jellico switched them from three to four or four to three. --Bp 21:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You were right in the first place. Edward Jellico states: I'd like to change that to four starting tonight. - Enzo Aquarius 21:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge individual shift articles?
There are too many separate articles discussing the various individual shifts (Alpha shift, Beta shift, day shift, swing shift, night shift). Perhaps these could be merged into a single article (this one?) with redirects put in place to catch references to the shifts by name? --Fastolfe 23:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That might make for a good idea. One modestly large page divided into subsections would make for a more complete article. The only difference between these shifts are the time which they occur, falling under one unifying concept. It worked for gagh. :) --Alan 08:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd suppport such a merge. Shifts are defined in relation to each other, so it really makes sense to have them all on one page.– Cleanse 10:12, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge
Should be merged with Day shift the same way Night watch was merged with Night shift. --Bp 21:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea from me, has my support. - Enzo Aquarius 21:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Resounding support, surprised it wasn't done alongside the night watch/shift merge. - Intricated 14:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge 2

 * The following was also added on the talk pages for Alpha shift, Beta shift, Gamma shift, and Swing shift.

Already mentioned, and essentially agreed upon here, just wanted to bring this out in the open a little more, since the discussion is a bit old. --Alan 20:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Merged all shift pages to Duty shift article. --From Andoria with Love 07:18, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Schedule of shifts
OK, I'm giving up trying to edit this page and have it stick. User:OuroborosCobra keeps reverting my edits because they appear to be speculation. It is established in Lower Decks that the Alpha shift ends at 1200 hours. It is established that there are three duty shifts. Each shift must be 8 hours long. If Alpha shift ends at 1200, that means it started at 0400. Beta follows Alpha, from 1200-2000. Gamma follows Beta and preceeds Alpha. I don't see how this is speculation. But I'll not attempt further edits.

In Chain of Command, Part I, the discussion between Jellico and Riker does indeed indicate that there is overlap between a traditional Gamma shift and the new Delta shift. Jellico says, "I believe we'll be arriving at the Cardassian border during delta shift." Riker responds, "I actually wanted to talk to you about delta a little later, sir. Right now, gamma shift is still slated to be on duty when we arrive and I'll be sure to tell Lieutenant McDowell about the probe." --Fastolfe 23:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He was not implying that they overlapped. In fact, he stated that they had not gone to the four shift system, they were still operating on three shifts. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  23:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

If a moment in time occurs during a "traditional" Gamma shift, and that same moment should occur during Jelico's "delta" shift, I'd say that makes them overlap. The discussion establishes that if Riker had implemented a four-shift rotation, that portion of Gamma shift would now be part of Delta shift. You also did not respond to the scheduled hours of the rotations. --Fastolfe 23:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I did not remember the "Lower Decks" stuff, and you did not cite them, so how was I supposed to know that they were not speculation? In addition, while it is very likely that the shifts are of equal length, and therefore 8 hours, this is never stated in canon, and would therefore be speculation. As for the Gamma shift thing, no, it does not imply overlap. Jellico thought they were on a four shift system, and asked about Delta. Riker had not implemented it, therefore it was still Gamma. That does not imply overlap of the shift time, only that the shift times would be different under a four shift system than under a three shift system. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  23:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The very presence of a "night shift" is not cited on this page, yet you're OK having it there. The Lower Decks citation is present in Alpha shift and Beta shift. (See the previous section where I suggest that these be merged; this is another reason to do so.) Regarding the overlap issue, I think we're talking past each other here. Take two sheets of tracing paper and raw a circle on each sheet, such that one circle lies atop the other. Draw a dot at the same place inside both circles that represents the point of time discussed in Chain of Command. On the first sheet, divide your circle into three parts, reflecting the three shifts. (They don't have to be equally-sized, if you want to believe that 8-hour shifts aren't canon.) Make sure your dot resides somewhere in the space occupied by the Gamma shift. On your second sheet, divide it into four parts, such that dot resides in Delta shift. Put these sheets on top of each other. Now explain how (in this universe) the Delta shift on your new pie chart does not overlap, somehow, the Gamma shift on your first pie chart. This seems really basic to me, which suggests to me that we're miscommunicating somehow. --Fastolfe 23:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hell, in that case we should also be saying how Alpha and Beta overlapped? Or how about Beta and Gamma? Why single out Delta? The way you are saying it in the article, you make it sound like Gamma and Delta overlapped DURING the four shift system. As for the existing edits, I am working on citing them, but since they were longer established, I did not get rid of them out right. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  00:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There, I have cited the shifts. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  00:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The point of the text was to try and establish the four-shift schedule relative to the three-shift schedule. The only canon reference to "where" Delta shift is, is that some portion of Delta shift overlapped the traditional Gamma shift.  (Delta being considered non-traditional, here.)  Perhaps I just didn't make that clear, and that's where the confusion arose. --Fastolfe 00:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, the article orders the shifts as "Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma." I can't think of a proper canonical reference that establishes that order, but if these are based on the first four letters of the Greek alphabet, Gamma comes before Delta. This ordering is more reasonable considering Jerico's addition of Delta as the fourth shift. This ordering issue was muted somewhat by my edits (by eliminating the ordered list entirely). --Fastolfe 00:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Shift change
I've heard somewhere that, somewhere down the line (I'm not sure whether in the episode itself or later on), there's a passing reference that they actually kept Jellico's shift changes. However, if that's the case, it doesn't seem to be reflected on the page. Is there any truth to this? Caswin 13:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Jellico told Picard that Enterprise was just the way that Picard had left it, so I'd figure they went back to three shifts. leandar 14:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Why didn't SF maintain a naval "watch" system
Here's my 2 centi-credit remarks. As usual, the Canon has no real godd continuity, since the writers were more concerned about drama and story than about people who might want to use the ideas for RPG or other purposes.

The Duty Shifts are not clearly defined, so it would be better to agree (within the community) on what they should have been. It is also rather bothersome (and rather Terra-centric) that some form Naval Tradition didn't serve into Star Fleet (i.e. the use of "watches" to designate "Duty Shifts")

However, the idea of rotating watch/duty teams has been a good and serviceable part of the Terran services for years. The following notes are compiled for other Wiki sources and not my own:

Based on the standard view of the Main Watch (Shift) from all the shows (Captain on duty, etc.) the Star Fleet standard would appear to be some version of the standard Merchant Naval watch system or standard work shift.

The only purpose for a 4 shift cycle would be to provide more time off during a crisis and hopefully keep the crew sharper.

RogerDunnl 19:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I replaced the images with tables with the exact same information (and can be formatted to easily correct anything). The answer to your question, why a naval system wasn't maintained, is obviously not given in canon. This is a combination of many of the writers ignorance on the practicalities of the shift system, outside of whatever story is told at the moment, and any in-universe "combined service" (and likely alien) influences on Starfleet. "Chain of Command" shows that starship commanders have wide authority in deciding how many shifts operate aboard a ship, so it likely widely varies throughout Starfleet.--Tim Thomason 05:22, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Post-merge order & difference between terms
So, in what order should we put the types of shifts? Is the current layout okay, or would you guys prefer listing them alphabetically or in some other order? Also, is there really any difference between alpha shift & day shift, beta shift & swing shift, or gamma shift & night shift? Based on the 24 hour clock, alpha shift/day shift would take place between 0400 and 1200 (at the start of the day), swing shift/beta shift would take place from 1200 through 2000 (covering the afternoon and early evening), and gamma shift/night shift would be from 2000 through 0400 (during the night). So should we merge these sections or are they not really the same? (Delta shift was temporary so that could be given its own special section.) What do you guys think? Don't wait for the translation, answer me now! --From Andoria with Love 08:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Difference in terms (cont...)
I've spent some time (probably far too much!) looking into this. From the canon (and also licensed) info I've looked at, I'm wondering if the terms are NOT synonymous. I wonder whether the greek-lettered terms refer to the team with which you work but not which period of the day they apply to. Therefore anyone one of the above rotation systems may apply (perhaps the Gamma Shift are not always on duty during the night...) Discuss... CommodoreFisher 17:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Illumination
I wonder what is the point of having a decreased illumination during nightwatch (TNG: Data's Day). Wouldn't it just lead to tiredness and decreased concentration of the officers? Also, I wonder if the day/night cycle is mimicked by the illumination on the rest of the ship. There I would consider it healthy to support the human biological clock, but not on the bridge where peak performance is required at all times.

31.164.81.247 22:14, January 9, 2012 (UTC)Felix

comment about Jellico
Unless anyone objects (and they can add it back in that case), I'm removing the comment that "No one reacted as if Jellico had personally invented it", because it lacks encyclopedic tone and I don't know what it's supposed to add. 74.69.11.229 22:59, March 2, 2013 (UTC)