Talk:Mutant lizard movie

Removal of Information
I removed the following info:


 * ''In the movies, Godzilla was born on the coastal regions of Oto Island. He was affected by nuclear tests and became a huge dinasaur-like creature, feared by the fishing villagers on that island, and ultimately, all of Japan. Standing at a towering 50 meters (164 feet), he was a powerful demon of destruction. Among his popular characteristics:


 * ''His iconic design (a charcoal-colored dinosaur-like figure with small pointed ears, rough bumpy scales, powerful tail, and bony white dorsal fins shaped like maple leaves).


 * ''He was virtually indestructible, impervious to all modern weaponry.


 * ''He could release a powerful atomic energy beam, usually blue but in some films red, from his mouth (which is ominously signalled when his dorsal fins glow/flash in the same color as the atomic beam).


 * ''The name "Gojira" is a combination of "gorilla" and kujira, which means "whale" in Japanese. The name was allegedly originally a nickname of a large worker at Toho Studios. But since Gojira was neither a gorilla nor a whale, the name "Gojira" was devised in a different way for the film's story; Gojira's name was "originally" spelled in kanji, but for sound only. The combined characters, oddly enough, mean "give you net"!


 * ''Gojira was first released in the United States in 1955 in Japanese-American communities only, under Toho's international title, Godzilla. In 1956, it was adapted by an American company into Godzilla, King of the Monsters (based on Toho's international title), edited and with added, principal scenes featuring Raymond Burr, and this version became an international success. As a result, the monster came to be known as "Godzilla" also in Japan.

None of this, of course, has anything to do with Godzilla's appearance in Star Trek. As we have stated before, this is not Wikipedia. The article should only include a brief description of who Godzilla is (which it has) and his role in the Trekverse (which it lacks). --From Andoria with Love

Godzilla Who?
As there was nothing in the show that identified this large monster as Godzilla - versus any other giant lizard that trashes cities in any of the Ultraman, Power Rangers, or similar shows - why does this article exist? Unless someone can definitively identify the Godzilla film this image capture comes from, I suggest the article be removed. Aholland 04:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * To bring an article up for removal, place it here. However, since Godzilla was actually referenced in the episode cited, the article is valid, so it's unlikely anyone will vote for its deletion. I think the subject at hand here is the image itself; and since we don't delete article simply because they might have a false image on them, I think we should just discuss the possibility that the image is incorrect. ;) --From Andoria with Love 06:39, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate the link, but if he was mentioned by name the article should stay. Thanks for taking the time to set me straight! Aholland 02:24, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I looked at transcripts but can't find any lines about "Godzilla". Are you certain it is referenced by name in the episode? Aholland 03:55, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen the episode in years, so I couldn't say. If it wasn't in the transcript, then it was most likely viewed by the characters, but not referenced. If it was seen, and it was a clip of Godzilla, then it is still valid, even if it wasn't referenced as such. Now, if it were something else (a reasonable fascimile, perhaps?), then we have a problem. Anyways, did you try looking up words like "lizard", "reptile" and such? --From Andoria with Love 04:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I decided to check the actual episode. At time index 32:05 through 32:07 there is a rubber-suit-style giant lizard shown walking next to a tall building. The photo in the article is about a good as it is going to get - and I'm impressed that it is *that* good given the source material. No one says "Godzilla", "lizard", "reptile" or calls attention to the image in any way. So, if there is no spoken reference to "Godzilla" the question becomes: is the clip from a Godzilla movie? I'm not Godzilla expert, but it looks to me like "no". The problem is it just doesn't look like Godzilla, and so may be one of a number of other pretenders to the throne of the "King of Monsters". For instance, there appears to be a crest of some sort on the top of his head; Godzilla has never had that. I have consulted a Godzilla expert from Barry's Temple of Godzilla (www.godzillatemple.com) for an opinion. I will post what he sends.Aholland 12:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * There's in fact a second scene with the Godzilla-monster on another of the 6 viewscreens, only seen for a few seconds, it shows the creature breathe fire, if that is any help. --Jörg 13:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply, but I didn't have access to my computer. The second time the monster is seen is on the upper right viewscreen at the very end of the scene with the 6 TV screens. The creature can be seen passing some kind of antenna or tower and then breathing fire. --Jörg 19:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Which screen and what time index? Aholland 14:13, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I've gotten a response from the Temple of Godzilla: "Hmmmmm....  My first impression is that this is not Godzilla.  For one thing, he doesn't appear to have a neck, and for another thing, the shape of his head looks wrong.  However, the image is so small and blurry that it's really hard to say for sure – maybe it's just the particular angle?  I wish I could be more definitive.  Regards, Barry"  So we now have a Godzilla expert questioning the image, and no dialogue proclaiming it to be Godzilla. Added to that is the fact that I can't find where Paramount would have any distribution or other rights to Godzilla; Sony (Columbia) has exclusive distribution in the U.S. Moreover, Toho (the Japanese owner of Godzilla stuff) contends that it is the owner of the exclusive rights and privileges in and to the copyright in its original motion picture Godzilla and in the subsequent Godzilla motion pictures. It vigorously enforces those rights [as in Toho Co., Ltd. v. William Morrow and Co., Inc., 33 F.Supp.2d 1206 (1998)]. It is not credible that Paramount would simply "lift" Godzilla material without authorization. It is more likely that it is similar to, but not, Godzilla. I believe I will throw this one up for deletion as it appears to me to be wishful thinking that the image is Godzilla rather than a conclusion drawn from what is shown. Aholland 15:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm curious, what are the qualifications to be a "Godzilla expert"?--Alan del Beccio 15:07, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Barry runs a website www.godzillatemple.com (check it out) and has for many years. He is as big a Godzilla fan as I know of. I liken it to asking the main administrator of this site if an image came from a Star Trek episode. In other words, I think he's about as "expert" as you can get on the subject matter he is passionate about. If you know of someone better, or different, I've no problem inquiring there too! Aholland 15:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, no, that's fine. I was just curious because I wasn't aware of any university programs that would prepare someone for such an expertise. I kid. As for this site, I'm not sure saying "main administrator" of this site is necessarily accurate in this case, although there are a few "lesser administrators" and likewise, daily contributors, who borderline perhaps, at best, "well versed". :) As for this particular "issue," it seems fairly implied that the intentions were for this to be Godzilla, IF there were any intentions behind the placement of the image. The crew travelled back to the 20th century, and Godzilla is a cultural icon of the 20th century, they are watching multiple tv broadcasts, its an not unlikely occurance. However, rather than deleting this, I would suggest moving this to "mutant lizard", or at best, lizard, because deleting the page deletes the image (figuratively speaking), which defeats the purpose of having it. --Alan del Beccio 15:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I like your suggestion. How about simply renaming this page "Mutant Lizard", and having as a comment that this image may have been intended to be seen as Godzilla, although its quality does not permit a definitive association. Or something like that? Aholland 16:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

(By the way, I'd make the change but I don't physically know how to change a title! *Sob*)  Aholland 16:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest to move this to a title that actually makes clear that this was a (in-universe) fictional animal/character/lifeform (or even, a movie about that). Just Mutant lizard sounds like an actual in-universe lifeform... :) -- Cid Highwind 17:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe "Fictional Oversized Lizard"? Aholland 18:55, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think he was agreeing with Mutant lizard. --Alan del Beccio 18:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was disagreeing with that, because (among other things) this is not an article about a creature, but an article about an unnamed movie - what about Mutant lizard movie? -- Cid Highwind 19:53, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * From edit summary:We _do_ realize how insignificant this all really is, right? :)
 * Yes, we do... ;) To add an even more insignificant explanation, I read your comment when it was still Godzilla, later reloaded the talk page without noticing that the article had been moved/rewritten in the meantime and then replied. :) -- Cid Highwind 20:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I like it. And thanks to all for pretending it was significant.  :)  Aholland 20:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to keep this nice and mixed up, I'd like to suggest that if we find another movie or two that we don't have names for in Trek that we start a 'Unnamed movies' page and move this to that location. Jaf 20:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Jaf


 * That sounds like a good idea, there's at least another (gangster) movie in I couldn't identify and I think there's also some more stuff on Tom Paris's TV in, apart from Daffy Duck and the Dinosaur. --Jörg 19:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that if an image of Godzilla from an actual Godzilla movie is used, there'd be no harm in using the name. After all, we named an article George W. Bush based on his appearance, rather than his being identified as such. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 20:52, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That's the problem: no one can positively identify this as being Godzilla.  It doesn't quite look like him, the movie or show from which it is drawn is not known, and Paramount doesn't have Godzilla distribution rights.  That is why he is now known as "unnamed mutant lizard" (which is a pretty cool name unto itself!)  Aholland 21:13, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yogi Berra just rolled over in his grave (and he's not even dead) o:
"Unnamed mutant lizard movie was a 20th century Earth movie about a mutated lizard.."
 * 1st point, it makes it sound like the name of the movie is literally: Unnamed mutant lizard movie
 * 2nd aaaahhhhh, my brain hurts after reading that sentance
 * 3rd How do you know it's about a mutated lizard? presumably that sort of plot related knowledge can only come if one knows what the movie is? suppose 'mutant lizard movie' is actually a movie about a guy who dresses up in a green scuba suit and runs amok amongst a number of 4 foot tall scaled miniatures before finally being arrested and sentanced to be Jerry Seinfeld's butler? you don't know, but this title makes it seem like you do--85.195.123.22 01:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't even believe I'm saying this, but we don't know it's a movie -- could be a TV show, or a commercial. "Mutant lizard production" -- lol. - AJ Halliwell 04:43, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * For all this, we actually don't even know that it's supposed to be a mutant. Unless we assume that it's really Godzilla after all. --TribbleFurSuit 03:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Then we're down to just Lizard, so why don't we just merge this into that page? :-) – Cleanse 03:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What if it's not a lizard? What if it's a guy in a dinosaur costume? :) For the record, it's obvious it's an oversized (i.e. "mutant") lizard. Now whether it's a movie or not... don't know. --From Andoria with Love 12:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Giant biped lizard. --Alan 12:16, 18 July 2008 (UTC)