Talk:Nothing Human (episode)

Mobile emitter
When Ensign Kim transfers the Doctor and Crell Moset back to Sickbay, the Doctor re-materializes still wearing the mobile emitter. How could the emitter be transfered with the Doctor?


 * Hypothetically, I guess he should have taken a turbolift... I haven't seen the ep in a while, but I assume it's one of those continuity errors fans can rationalize by saying something like "Well, his emitter was 'transferred' using a transporter, since he's a hologram". --Vedek Dukat (Talk) 17:30, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Inconsistency
Does anyone else find it odd that using Crell Moset's research sparked such controversy when the Voyager crew has had no problem using Seven of Nine's Borg technology? In addition, why not simply switch to a less controversial exobiology authority as a physical and personality template for the hologram?Waterfalling 03:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I was thinking that too. The other major issue that this and numerous other episodes completely ignore is the ethics of creating and disposing of apparently intelligent and self-aware holograms or AIs to to use or dispose of at wll.86.177.170.72 21:13, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

removed info

 * Episode alludes to the ethical questions surrounding "Grey's Anatomy" which is reputed to have been created based on information from torture victims in World War II.

What, exactly, does this have to do with anything? --From Andoria with Love 06:44, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The episode deals with the Doctor using a source (the Moset hologram) which gained its knowledge from the unethical treatment of Bajorans. The comparison to Grey's Anatomy, I gather (first time I heard this), is a pretty equal comparison and is an alright background note.
 * Key: Doctor = Modern Day Doctors, Moset Hologram = Grey's Anatomy, Crell Moset = Nazi Doctors whose info was used in Grey's anatomy, World War II = Bajoran Occupation.--Tim Thomason 09:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I guess I can see how that could work. Alright, I'll re-add it (assuming it hasn't been re-added already). --From Andoria with Love 20:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, according to Wikipedia, "Grey's Anatomy" is a recent US TV series, while "Gray's Anatomy" is a british anatomy textbook that was first published in 1858. Which one has to do with Nazis and WW2, and where's the "allusion" to it in this episode? :) -- Cid Highwind 20:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I have no clue. I removed the info again pending the outcome of this discussion. --From Andoria with Love 20:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Idea, after I read an episode summary off-site: Could it be Josef Mengele that's being alluded to, here, instead of this seemingly poor and innocent textbook? -- Cid Highwind 20:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't add the info, I was just trying to explain how it could be useful, if it were true. Since the Josef Mengele comparison is valid (don't tell me it's not), I think a background note on that would be useful.--Tim Thomason 20:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It's more than valid, Dr Mengele is directly what the episode is based upon. --68.197.44.158 07:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And what's the basis/source for stating that it "is directly what the episode is based upon"? -- Sulfur 09:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't leave the above note you're replying to, but The Doctor makes a comment when talking to Crell about the paper he's proposed they write about the experience that may be pertinent. He asks if they'll tell mention how Crell honed his surgical techniques, "A foot note perhaps, 'For further details see Cardassian death camp.'"  This seems to be a pretty direct comparison to the Nazi death camps, and Josef Mengele is the most notorious/well-known of the doctors that performed research in the Nazi death camps.  At least some of Mengele's experiments seem to have parallels in Crell's, for example Mengele would inject children's eyes with chemicals to try to change their eye color, whereas Crell would blind Bajoran patients to see how they would adapt.  Many of Mengele's experiments were of dubious (or completely worthless) medical value, and some of Crell's appear to be too, such as his exposing patients to acid just to see their skin heal.  While there's not anything canon I know of explicitely stating that Crell is based on Mengele, I think there's enough to justify a note in the Background section mentioning the comparison.  Perhaps something like "The ethical issues surrounding how Crell performed his research seem to be inspired by the experiments performed by Nazi doctors in the death camps of WWII.  In particular, Crell's character appears to be based on Josef Mengele due to similarities in their treatment and experimentation on human/Bajoran patients." -– Maestro4k 00:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

PNA
Acts are wrong here too - only four acts, instead of five. The Epilogue shouldn't be a separate component. -- Michael Warren | Talk 15:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Jetrel
Anybody noticed the similarity of this episode to season one's ? Smumdax !? 05:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see any similarities to Jetrel. --Morder 06:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This line is incorrect.

 * It remains unexplained how the computer was able to generate an accurate holographic replica of the alien, simulating even its physiological functions, when the alien is unscannable, as determined earlier in sickbay.

This is incorrect, because Dr Crell Moset showed the Doctor how to improvise - they reconfigured the medical tricorder so that it COULD scan the alien. I'll leave it to someone else to change this comment. Avengah 15:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I removed the note because if what you say is true (and I don't really remember lol), the note has no value (ie. It is explained that...) ;-)– Cleanse 23:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Moset's eyes go wide and he opens his mouth to protest, he is deleted before any word can come out.

This line is incorrect because Moset does protest, saying that his deletion won't stop the fact that the Doctor has already used his research to treat a patient regardless of its ethics. VicGeorge2K7 13:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand your addition and I'm not trying to be rude but the protest is covered under the preceding paragraph and your location for wanting to add the protest is also being added in the wrong location. – Morder 13:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sticking to the truth of what was actually in the episode, and the truth is: Moset does protest, and the protest falls on deaf ears. You can keep it out of the main text all you want, but I'm not going to concede that your version of events in that matter is the correct version. (VicGeorge2K9 13:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC))

"Received a download"
Anyone else notice how at the beginning of the episode that Captain Janeway and Harry Kim said "we received a download", when you cannot receive a download, you can only receive an upload? -PatPeter 21:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh. It's probably simpler for non-computer literate people to understand that when you hear the word upload you're sending while download you're receiving. Not worth adding to an article. – Morder 21:27, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

nitpick

 * The ease with which Harry Kim creates the Moset hologram is curious in light of the events of from the previous season.  There, Kim abandoned the project to create a duplicate EMH as too complex a task for his skills.  Here, he attempts a similar task, and successfully completes it within a matter of minutes.  It perhaps suggests that Kim was bothered by his failure before and continued to hone his holoprogramming skills in his off hours.

Removed. – Morder 22:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * When Harry transfers the Doctor and Crell Moset to sickbay from the holodeck, the mobile emitter is transferred with them.


 * Removed per MA:NIT.--31dot 02:04, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Removed

 * The plot had strong connections to the real life histories of the Japanese Unit 731 and Nazi atrocities during World War II. During the span of the war the unit conducted countless vivisection, amputation, environmental, biological and chemical experiments on hundreds of thousands of live victims. The units' members were subsequently granted amnesty by the US military in exchange for their research data. The character of Crell Mosett also bears a resemblance to Aribert Heim, known infamously as Dr Death, a Nazi war criminal who conducted inhumane and often bizarre human experiments on prisoners of the Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp.

Removed as lacking a citation of a deliberate attempt to draw a similarity between these real-life examples.--31dot 17:21, January 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * While I do agree that citation would be better, I think to assume that the Trek staff pulled the idea about "Dr conducting experiments on prisoners during war-time" out of their asses seems just as improbable. Obviously they had this very thing in mind - you dont need citation for it. The note can be reworded and the specific comparison to Dr. Heim can be removed, but whether the staff confirms it or not, there are parallels between what Mosett did and what said Nazis did during WWII and it certainly wouldnt hurt to place that information in there. Some things are very specific or obscure, so they do need citation, but in this case, it is obvious where the inspiration came from: real life. – Distantlycharmed 17:39, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

The statement asserts a "strong connection to the real life histories" and gives specific examples; and if it wasn't, it would only be a general statement of the obvious, which could be given for almost any episode. (X episode was inspired by real life) It doesn't need to be stated. You do not know what is in anyone's head, no matter how "obvious" it might be. I deal with the public on a daily basis and you would be surprised how many "obvious" things people miss. If we don't know for a fact what inspired the episode, we shouldn't claim that we do, even if it is "obvious".--31dot 19:59, January 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well if you say people miss obvious things, then why are you suggesting we dont add "the obvious" to the section?


 * I do get your point and I specifically pointed out that details, such as comparisons to Dr. Heim, should be omitted by making a general statement. Anyway for me the parallels are obvious but it would have been interesting to mention it there for those who go through life in a semi-conscious, sheep like existence :) – Distantlycharmed 20:50, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Pardon me, I got my obviouses a little mixed together. The first part referred to the comment and the other referred to knowing what's in people's heads.--31dot 21:02, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Removed note
"The doctor walks to the holodeck with his mobile emitter, yet he and Crell Moset are then transferred from the holodeck to sickbay and the doctor is still wearing the emitter when he reappears." I don't see the relevance of this note. --Defiant 07:48, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Citation needed
Removed the following note, as it has lacked a citation for over two years now that it was something more than the use of a couple of common phrases:


 * The Doctor's lecture at the beginning of this episode features several references to songs performed by Vic Fontaine, namely "The Best Is Yet To Come" and "Under The Skin". This might be a hint of the then-upcoming DS9 episode, likely produced parallel to this Voyager episode.

–Cleanse ( talk 11:24, April 6, 2012 (UTC)