Category talk:Episodes

Category:Episodes
For all episodes of any series. Decision as to placing movies here or do the ten films deserve to be considered as episodes. Possible subs would be by series. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 17:06, 2 Jan 2005 (CET) So are the following acceptable: ? -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 21:57, 2 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * I don't see this as terribly useful. This is a case where I think we're better served by existing structures: the series and season pages. -- Steve 17:59, 2 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * I partly agree with Steve - one category for all episodes wouldn't be too useful in my opinion - I wouldn't object to Category:TOS episodes etc. though. In that case Category:Episodes could later be created as a supercategory for those 6 categories. Movies should have their own category, Category:Movies. -- Cid Highwind 19:57, 2005 Jan 2 (CET)
 * This category should contain five more categories: Category:Episode (TOS), Category:Episode (TNG), Category:Episode (DS9), Category:Episode (VOY) and Category:Episode (ENT); however no episode of any series should be placed within the supercategorie, it is simply not practically. -- Kobi 20:06, 2 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * Category:TOS episodes
 * Category:TAS episodes
 * Category:TNG episodes
 * Category:DS9 episodes
 * Category:VGR episodes
 * Category:ENT episodes
 * Category:Movies


 * Support - The series and season pages list the episodes according to those criteria. Someone looking by title would have more work to do, especially for the series that went seven seasons.  A category for each series, with alphabetic order by title would get my vote.  -- Balok 02:32, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * I moved this suggestion to a separate subsection, because it is a "bigger" suggestion somehow. Generally, I agree with this categorization - an alphabetical list of all episodes in one series, no categories for specific seasons, no episodes appearing in the supercategory "Episodes". I strongly object to "VGR episodes", though. We had this discussion before, it should be Category:VOY episodes. -- Cid Highwind 12:10, 2005 Jan 3 (CET)


 * Agreed. "VOY" is the generally accepted abbreviation. -- Balok 19:15, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * Generally accepted even though we have no VOY Season 7 but VGR Season 7 instead. All of our Voyager pages use VOY (VOY recurring characters, etc.) with the sole exception of the VOY and two other redirects using VOY. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 20:42, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * VOY seems to be what they use in the directory structure over at http://www.startrek.com, for whatever that's worth... -- Balok 21:22, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * This should probably be discussed somewhere else, but anyway: "Generally accepted" because not only the official Star Trek website StarTrek.com, but the majority of fans worldwide uses VOY, not VGR. Try googling for ("VOY" "Star Trek") and ("VOY" "Star Trek") - less than 10,000 hits using the first string, but over 180,000 using the second. Even on this site, the abbreviation VOY is used about as much as the abbreviation VOY - try "What links here" on both redirect pages. We should definitely have that sorted out before creating any categories using either "VOY" or "VGR"... -- Cid Highwind 21:28, 2005 Jan 3 (CET)


 * I agree that seasons are an abstract and essentially meaningless subdivision. But I don't know if I like alphabetical order. What about a sort key representing the correct order of episodes? Alternatively, I'd like to keep the lists of episodes per series in the series article, next to the category. Because I like to keep lists of episodes in airing order somewhere. -- Harry 13:10, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * I think this is the kind of thing best handled by a list, because I feel the alphabetic ordering of category keys will produce a bizarre looking page. Category pages seem structured to order keys alphabetically.  A date based key work create some sort of numeric ordering, and not a particularly pretty one; you'd have to use an easily and correctly sorted format like '19670107' (January 7, 1967) to ensure a valid sort.  Unless there are special date handling category tools I know nothing about.  -- Balok 19:15, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * Yes, airing order should be kept somewhere, but it doesn't make any sense to have the category entries sorted by airdate, because the sort key itself doesn't appear in the listing. Besides, we already have complete and final lists sorted that way, so the categories would be completely redundant that way... -- Cid Highwind 13:19, 2005 Jan 3 (CET)
 * Sorting by airdates is kinda silly.. I still don't understand, with the exception of Unification and Skin of Evil, why anyone would think the order that NBC or Viacom chose the episodes for airing has any kind of relevance superior to the chronological order of eps or production order -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 20:42, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * There are already three pages that sort the episodes in production order, so these should be used for alphabetical sorting. Furthermore I object the creation of "VGR Episodes", because then it would need to be "EPR Episodes" as well. Also I still think you should go with the namingconventiones and name these "Category:Episode (SER)" (using singular version and Series Tag after) -- Kobi 21:23, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * I referred to "airdate order" above, but my point isn't to discuss "airdate" vs. "production" or "stardate" order - it's any chronological order vs. alphabetical order. Categories are sorted alphabetically by default and without any good possibility to change it. Sort keys can be used for minor corrections (for example using "Defector, The" to avoid having half of all episodes listed at 'T'), but not to chronologically list 180 entries. -- Cid Highwind 21:03, 2005 Jan 4 (CET)

So what are the specific advantages or disadvantages to Category:VOY episodes compared to Category:Episodes (VOY)? or furthermore, what qualifiers are we using to decide singular vs plural, (Category:Episode (VOY)) and how is it advantageous to not use a unified singular or plural scheme? -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 16:06, 6 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * Category:X (singular) for "articles related to X"; Category:Xs (plural) for a "List of X", if we're following Wikipedias scheme. In this case, it should be "Episodes". One advantage of "Episodes (VOY)" compared to "VOY Episodes" is that the former follows accepted naming conventions ("(VOY)" being a qualifier for "episodes", similar to the qualifiers used on our disambiguation pages) while the latter could be considered a non-standard abbreviation of the more correct title "Star Trek Voyager episodes"... -- Cid Highwind 17:58, 2005 Jan 6 (CET)
 * Well if there's ever a category or supercategory "TOS" then in a list, undercategories "TOS episodes" and "TOS whatevers" would all fall nicely under it. I can't see any difference why it would matter either way, but which is the preferred method? I'd like to reach a consensus: I put forward the "TOS episodes" suggestion, but does anyone else support that in favor of the one objection to make the disambiguated version ("Episodes (TOS)").. please support one so we can get started. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 17:39, 9 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * I thought about it for quite some time - I guess I prefer "Episodes (TOS)", although I could live with "TOS Episodes" as well, should the majority prefer that one. -- Cid Highwind 09:39, 2005 Jan 13 (CET)

I think we should finally get this started - Mike, let's just wait until tomorrow evening and then create the categories as suggested. Guys, this is your last chance to vote for either XYZ episodes or Episodes (XYZ). -- Cid Highwind 23:43, 2005 Jan 19 (CET)