Talk:Sovereign class/archive

Militaristic design
I really like the Sovereign Design. I think it is a beautiful ship, and one of my favorites. But does anyone think its just a little too militaristic for Star Trek?


 * If you look close you will see that since the Dominion War Star Trek actually got more militaristic. I guess it is because that´s what new comer to Star Trek want to see. Also it is important to say that we have seen nearly nothing about the Sovy so far beside her "fire power". So she could also guard a lot of science labs. But one thing is for shure, she is more combat orientated than the Galaxy. --Forestin / USS Esmeralda


 * I'd have to agree that the design is more military in nature, but that seems to be what the fans have been asking for. Star Trek has always been about reflecting what is currently happening in the world and right now things seem to be a bit more dangerous than they were when TNG first began airing.  I think a lot of people have turned their back on the ideal future and now want to see a more realistic, i.e.. dangerous and paranoid, representation.  Look at the success of the new Battlestar Galactica for instance.  people just don't seem to beleive in the reality of peace these days. Lt. Commander Schinke


 * The Sovereign is beautiful. Its long, graceful warp nacelles, its oval, low-profile saucer...just beautiful. The Sovereign was a post-Wolf 359 and post-Cardassian War ship design. It, the Akira, and the Steamrunner were the first designs after the Federation truly realized that space is a dangerous place, and while they shouldn't take the Klingon mindset, they do need to put some more teeth on their ships. This then evolves to the Achilles, the Intrepid, the combat-only Defiant, Prometheus, and even the science vessell the Nova class that is the descendant of the Oberth and Constellation class.

Designation and other Canon-issues
I'd like to have a problem with the designation of the USS Sovereign: NCC-73811 is the number that the game ST:Bridge Commander made it to have, and is therefore non-canon. The alternative would be to list it as NCC-75000, which is non-canon too: Since it was never explicitly mentioned with his designation, some fans phoned Mr. Okuda and asked him if they could give it the NCC-75000 designation. According to legend, he mumbled something like "OK" or so... Personally, I like 73811 more than 75000, since a number with lots of zeros is not a good designation for a Starfleet ship ;-) --Echoray 04:47, 19 Jan 2004 (PST)


 * Well, if someone called me (probably in the middle of the night) with that question, my answer would sound a little different... ;)
 * Anyway, both numbers seem to be non-canon (73811 probably being a little more reliable), which should be noted on the USS Sovereign-page. Generally, I have a problem with much of the details on starships appearing here recently - much of it doesn't sound too reliable, especially without proper references. -- Cid Highwind 05:46, 19 Jan 2004 (PST)


 * I agree.. There seems to be A LOT of DITL-based or otherwise non-canon info. I've just resolutely removed all the non-canon from this article. Because the truth, we know VERY LITTLE about the Sovereign-class. -- Harry 07:03, 19 Jan 2004 (PST)


 * Actually, Harry, I wrote (or re-wrote) a large portion of that article, and 99% of it IS canon. I've included my original text here:

After the horrific lost of 39 starships in the battle of Wolf 359, Starfleet began to develop new starship designs designed to combat the threat of the Borg Collective (see also: Defiant-class.

''The Sovereign class was one of the results. Considered to be one of the most powerful vessels in the Alpha Quadrant, the Sovereign class serves as Starfleet's first line of defense. Despite her florid designation, the Sovereign is essentially a battleship, with the most advanced weaponry available to the Federation. Primary amongst these is a large quantum torpedo turret mounted forward of the deflector dish, which is capable of firing four rounds in a second.1 Backup to the quantum torpedoes is provided by photon tubes; four of these are located at the base of the engineering section in pairs which face forward and aft.2 Each is capable of firing twelve round bursts.3 The warp engines of the Sovereign were of a new design which eliminates subspace distortion effects inherent to standard warp drives without the use of variable geometry nacelles (as found on the Intrepid-class, a feature later becoming common on most Starfleet ships.4

The second ship off the production line was commissioned as the sixth starship USS Enterprise-E following the loss of its Galaxy''-class predecessor at Veridian III by Klingon renegades in 2371.5 The Sovereign class baptism of fire came in 2373 when a Borg vessel again attacked the Federation and the Sovereign class starship USS Enterprise-E participated in the counter-attack at Earth.6


 * The only non-canon that I left in was the first paragraph - everything else is based on what we've seen, or reasonable extrapolation.


 * 1. source - on screen in First Contact.
 * 2. source - model and design blueprints.
 * 3. source - comments by Rick Sternbach.
 * 4. extrapolation based on TNG "Force of Nature" and lack of Voyager-style tilting nacelles on any other new type of Starfleet vessel.
 * 5. Yes, this bit is spec, but based on the fact that we haven't seen another Sovereign, and the necessary existence of at least one other (the Sovereign herself).
 * 6. extrapolation based on the relatively young age of the Sovereign class at the time of First Contact.


 * I actually didn't use DITL for most of this, but my own knowledge of the Sovereign's canon capabilities and advancements. I can agree with the removal of non-canon, but I would have appreciated discussing what should and should not be kept. You could have toned down the non-canon sections, but kept the systems descriptions. I will do so now, and re-add the appropriate sections. -- DarkHorizon 14:28, 19 Jan 2004 (PST)


 * As for the other small section that was removed, how was the statement that the Sovereign fared better than the Norexans non-canon? -- DarkHorizon 14:28, 19 Jan 2004 (PST)


 * According to info provided by Rick Sternbach, The Sovereign Class is the replacement for the Excelsior Class. He also has said that the ship is a Heavy Cruiser. These facts were decided while they were designing it for FC. He stated this in a discussion thread on the TrekBBS a few months ago. He did reveal more info, but I don't remember all of it. The ASDB has the best collection of cannon and speculative info of any site that I have seen. The webmaster has gotten most of his info from the people that work, or have worked on the show. 05:11 5 Feb. 2004 Gluemyster


 * Isn't it possible that the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E) is a renamed USS Sovereign? Just like the Enterprise-A. Has anyone every asked someone in production that question? That would mean the Enterprise-E is the only Sovereign in starfleet.

Sovereign Dimensions
The Tech manual gives these: Length : 641 m Beam : 470 m Height : 145 m could someone explain where the dimensions in this article came from?


 * Searching around, the specs at www.ditl.org are quite similar to the ones in the article, DITL mentions that it is background information, so it may not be canon. However, didn't Picard state in First Contact that the Sovereign was less than 700 meters long? Enzo Aquarius 17:12, 20 Dec 2004 (CET)

Yet the Tech manual gives different dimensions. Granted, the Tech manual is not the most reliable source, but surely it would take precedence over DITL, however well respected that site is. --Andrew 12-21-04 17:17 PST


 * I believe those dimensions are for the Galaxy class. There's no way that the Sovereign can match those dimensions -- just look at the ship itself. 470 m is more than two-thirds that of 641 m, and the Sovereign class is not two-thirds as wide as it is long. -- EtaPiscium 02:21, 22 Dec 2004 (CET)

Yes, I believe you're right on that account. Andrew 12-22-04 17:24 PST


 * i blame the messed up dimensions on people not understanding the metric system. it pops up a lot in books and film from the USA.


 * Um, those must be for the Galaxy Class. Picard Specifically said the ship was "almost 700 meters long". So somewhere between 680 and at most 690(+-). --Atlantians, not a member, just an observer.

Additional Pictures?
Redge, you said the article could use more pictures. I have quite a lot of Sovereign images on my computer. Where do you think additional images could be used? The article already has quite a lot of images, in my opinion. ;) Ottens 12:53, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * Well, I see that in the mean time you've already added a few. All I'm still missing is a picture (and some text) on the Captain's Yacht (Insurrection) and main shuttlebay. -- Redge 16:13, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * I would still like to see the above addressed to. I am surprised that this has featured status without any mention of the shuttle bays, shuttle craft or captains yacht, much less any images of it. It seems to focus more on its defensive capabilities than anything, which seems a bit biased, to me. --Gvsualan 23:06, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * There's a good picture of the captains yacht already it just needs some text in the main article to help it. zsingaya 15:04, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Defensive systems
I believe that Sovereign class ships have Regenerative shielding (Note: I do not believe that the Regenerative Shielding article is correct, see it's talk page for details), but I cannot remember where I found this little tidbit of information. The features regen. shields, so it would make sense that the Sovereign class would as well; both are suppost to represent the pinnacle of starfleet technology. Also, I believe that in the game Star Trek: Bridge Commander, the USS Sovereign has regenerative shielding, and while I know this is not technically canon, it shouldn't be flatly disregarded.

Also, I am pretty sure the Sovereign class has Ablative armor. ships feature ablative armor, and are 3 years older in design. I believe this is also referenced in ST: Bridge Commander.

I just think that it would make sense that starfleet's flagship would feature the most advanced defensive technology. -- BMS 00:31, 13 Sep 2004 (CEST)


 * The Sovereign almost certainly has both Regenerative Shields as well as Ablative armor. Nemesis is what gives us this indication.  Traditionaly shields on Federation ships do not regenerate at a speed that would be helpful in a combat situation.  It can take hours for the shields to get back to full levels.  But in Nemesis the Enterprise had shields constantly on the verge of failing only to have them back up to nominal strength within minutes.  Furthermore, the hull strikes against the Enterprise indicate that damage did not radiate outward much more then the weapon strike itself.  Rather then damage radiating out from the weapon strike and NDFing away sections of the hull like seen in Dominion battles, each strike was extremely limited.  Similar to Ablative armor, only not as thick as what the Defiant packs. Alyeska 05:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The Sovereign class pioneered Regenerative Shielding, but it didn't work well, The Enterprise-E was commissioned with regular shields. Regenerative Shields were later perfected and installed on the U.S.S. Prometheusus, and the U.S.S. Sovereign was brought of of mothballs and refitted with working Regenerative Shields. It is unknown to me if the Enterprise-E was refitted, but I believe it would be a safe assumption. Also, the Sovereign had ablative armor over "key sections" of the vessel is what I read somewhere while the Prometheusus and the Defiant was covered from stem to stern with ablative armor.

Civilians??
Are there any civilians onboard Sovereign class starships? I know the the logical answer is no, since it's primary role is not long range exploration like Galaxy, but is there any canon, not speculative info on this matter? April 28, 2005


 * There is no direct canon information. The only evidence is the lack of mention of any civilians on board durring the events of First Contact, Insurection, and Nemesis. Surely if there were civilians on board, they would have been mentioned in those extremely dangerous encounters, like they were in Generations. --Atlantians, not a member, just an observer.

Married personnel
To prevent an edit war, Is there any reason for listing that married personnel were allow to share quarters? Every single instance of married personnel have shared quarters, and it seems odd that it would be different on this class of ship. (Ie: Siskos on the Saratoga, O'Briens on Ent-D and DS9, Dax and Worf DS9, etc...) On another note, it's in the wrong section: if any mention of it at all is gonna be in the article, Crew quarters has it's own section. - AJ Halliwell 00:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it's relevant to mention because of the time that has passed and the apparent LACK of NON-crew personnel onboard the ship, which background information suggests is a result of a Starfleet policy change. The first two examples you gave were PRIOR to the War, while the last involved two OFFICERS who were married, but had no children.  Also there is the difference between "station" duty (usually with a planet close by) and "space" duty (on a ship that may be some distance from any safe harbor.


 * So mentioning BOTH the lack of civilians AND the ability of married crew to share quarters is an accurate description of the situation as it stands, at least for that class of starship.


 * Lastly, I don't think the mention is in the wrong place myself. It (the lack of extensive provision for civillians) pertains to general crew support issues as opposed to strictly a "housing" issue. YMMVCapt Christopher Donovan 02:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Saucer separation?
Shatner's book Preserver has Picard giving Kirk command of the saucer while he chases something. Was separation an option according to the cannon? Will (Talk - contribs) 00:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Never seen in canon, no. I personally would doubt such a capability, the saucer is far more an integrated part of the rest of the hull in the Sovereign class than in the Galaxy class of Constitution class (the latter never had a saucer separation in canon, but numerous non canon sources give it that capability). --OuroborosCobra talk 00:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The Classic Enterprise could seperate its saucer. Kirk told Scotty to prepare to do it in "The Apple." Production drawings show the Ent-E being able to seperate, but I find it unlikely because the main shuttle bay has at least 3 more levels below the main landing bay, and they would extend all the way down through where the seperation plane would be.Modelshipbuilder6:04am EST January 30th 2007

Perhaps I should clarify the question. By "saucer separation", I was using the term as it applied to the Galaxy class. That is, can the ship separate with the two halves able to act as separate ships and reconnect without help from a starbase? The Constitution class would fail this test.

Also, my impression as to why the Sovereign class couldn't separate had to do with the ridges on the ventral side of the saucer. They were added to reduce the amount of blue screen work required for the battle around the main deflector in First Contact. But there were consequences for that choice. Will (Talk - contribs) 23:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, in the Star Trek Magazine, the writers of Trek who developed the Sovereign say it IS suppose to be able to seporate the saucer from the drive section, though we have not had the privlage of seeing it. sam17101 2:55am EST March 15th 2007


 * yea the saucer is able to separate. In one of the magazines it has stuff on the Enterprise E and the guy who they were talking to (the one who came up with the Enterprise E) said he took a long time figuring out how it would separate even though he knew it would probably never be used.


 * Got a simple, but elusive, question: can the saucer section on a sovereign class ship be separated like in a galaxy class? I've checked the links here at MA, and unless i just missed it, my findings are inconclusive. I only ask b/c I ran across some non-canon mention of it, and wondered if there was any fact behind it. – Farfallen 14:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * John Eaves' production sketches in Star Trek: Communicator #113(?) showed that it is indeed designed to separate. Until this is confirmed on screen, however, it is not canon. -- Connor Cabal 14:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

What did the Sovereign class ships do during the Dominion War?
Please correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the Sovereign class already in production during the Dominion War? What were they up to? As far as can remember, in the Dominion War episodes of DS9, we saw plenty of Galaxy class, but not any of Sovereign class. However, surely the Enterprise-E, described in First Contact as "the most advanced ship in the fleet", would not have been left out of the Federation's encounters with the Dominion. So what were the Enterprise and the other Sovereign class ships doing?
 * Speaking from a canon point-of-view, we cannot give a truthful answer as the Sovereign-class was never mentioned during the course of the Dominion War (of course, they class was most likely involved, just not shown). Numerous non-canon novels, on the other hand, give stories of the Enterprise-E during the Dominion War. - Enzo Aquarius 22:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We do know, however, that the Enterprise-E was assigned to greet the Evora during the war, as seen in . What part it played in the actual war, however, is unknown. --From Andoria with Love 02:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a behind-the-scenes, real world answer, too. I read somewhere (don't recall where at the moment) that the reason we don't see any Sovereign-class vessels during the Dominion War - especially during the Battle of Cardassia - is because the producers wanted to save it for the TNG movies, one of which (again with the bad memory!) was due to come out not long after those episodes of DS9 were first airing. - User:RiggerMantis 00:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Since the Sovereign is so advanced it would have used more resources to build than the older Classes and resources were tight during the war. That would be why so many of the older Akira Class and and even  were forced into front line use. And Considering the way ships were dropping like flies in the DS9 battles it would be dumb to risk such a new ship. Resources probably went to kitbash ships like the Elkins-type.


 * That's a bit weak. You don't throw away older ships and the lives of their crews because you're afraid to risk new ships built for combat.  Perhaps the ships had a design flaw that needed to be corrected so none were available.  Maybe they were active but simply not seen.  Not every ship in the various fleets has been identified.  And just because a formation is called a "Galaxy Wing" doesn't mean ships of other types couldn't be attached.  Maybe they weren't as tough as they looked and the Dominion destroyed them in some unseen battle.  Who knows?  There might be a lot of reasons why Sovereigns weren't shown.  But I doubt fear-of-fighting was one of them.– StarFire209 20:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Last line of defense to protect earth? Makes sense to me. Using the Queen to protect the King and let all the pawns do the work. -G

About the name...
Although it is highly likely that I missed it somewhere, I couldn't point at the first canon time the class was named as Sovereign. So, can anyone tell me when was it named? --Pakundo 20:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I know for certain that it was mentioned on the master systems display on the back of the Enterprise bridge. - V. Adm. Enzo Aquarius 20:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the dedication plaque. --From Andoria with Love 03:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Number of Sovereign class ships
I wonder, how many Sovereign class ships are there in the Federation?


 * It has never been mentioned in canon, but I'd say there are at least two of them. The class prototype (If the norm was used, and the "first" ship of the class is the class name), and naturally, the Enterprise. --Terran Officer 06:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is also possible there is only one since the Sovereign has never been mentioned on screen. Although it has been stated that the Enterprise-E is a renamed Horutha (or something along those lines) it is possible the Enterprise is a renamed From the Sovereign and therefore the only ship of it's class. Untill another one is viewed or mentioned on screen it should be assumed the Enterprise-E is the only one. --70.51.121.222 02:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Backup warp core?
In Insurrection they jettison the core in the Briar Patch to seal a subspace tear, but thirty minutes later they're in orbit around the Bak'u planet. Backup warp core methinks.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 09:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Nowhere in that entire sequence does warp use need occur. The Patch is impulse only, and the E-E only has to emerge from the patch long enough to fire off a subspace comm message before heading back.  (And the 'going back' presumably takes less time since nobody's trying to kill them then.)  – Kv1at3485 17:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, those distances might look short onscreen, but in reality, they're huge. You know that at lightspeed it would take over four hours to get from Earth to Neptune? Now, how big do we think the Briar Patch is?--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 17:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it was specifically stated that the Patch was impulse only, so no, they do not need warp drive to get through it. While it may be difficult to believe, that is what is canon. There was NO mention of a back up warp core, and in fact SPECIFIC mention of there not being one. When ejecting it successfully seals the subspace rupture, Geordi says something like:
 * "But there is nothing to stop them from doing it again, and we are fresh out of warp cores."
 * That is what seals the deal. It is specifically stated there were no other warp cores. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:11, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well, since they've got guns that disintegrate people, and tubules that turn you into a mindless drone, I guess that isn't too difficult to believe.–The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 16:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)