Talk:Great Barrier

It takes, or rather would have taken, Voyager 70 years to reach home. how then does Enterprise-A reach the center of the Galaxy in a matter of hours
 * Yeah... Paramount usually sweeps that movie under the rug. Just pretend it never happened. --Vedek Dukat Talk 03:11, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * But as far as I know, ST5 is Canon for MA. --TOSrules 03:27, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Then I guess we could always come up with some sort of explanation involving the damage the warp engines did to subspace in that one TNG episode, and thus the time it takes to get across the galaxy increased a hundred fold. --Vedek Dukat Talk 03:55, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately for us all, yes Star Trek 5 is considered canon, like lots of other badly written projects. It is inexplicable with canon material just how the Enterprise crossed such a great distance and through the barrier in such a short time.
 * Although there are speculative explanaitions (maybe "God" supplied Sybok with directions to, or manufactured, a space-time shortcut like a wormhole), there's nothing concrete to confirm or disconfirm those theories. Although Roddenberry was loathe to admit it himself, he said he considered "some" of the movie apocryphal, he didn't write off the whole film. And, I can understand that line of reasoning. There are plot elements which are pretty good and explain background information about the characters (like McCoy's painful decision to euthanize his father). With some further editing, it could have been fixed up a little bit. But, Paramount decided otherwise and that's what we're left with.--Mike Nobody 05:43, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)


 * Even if "God" gave Sybok information to get to the Great Barrier faster, it wouldn't explain how the Bird of Prey gets there too. If it was a wormhole they could of followed them through. Of course, since the wormhole theory isn't mentioned on screen we can't be sure. --


 * There is reference to phenomena other than wormholes that can move things faster than their normal speeds through space. The original encounter with the barrier outside the galaxy by the Valiant was the result of being swept along by a magnetic storm. It is possible a vastly powerful being like the "god" in this could locate eddies and currents in spacetime that most science couldn't yet detect. In which case, when the Enterprise... and the ship following it... hit this particular course they got swept along. There are plenty of cases of things getting places faster than they should in Trek, this is a decent explanation without requiring wormholes or unprecedentedly advanced technology. Or even extra FX. --JCoyote 15:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Why couldn't the Enterprise just go over or under the barrier? It looks like a green line across space.

The Star Trek Star Charts book makes some huge mistakes regarding distances. For example, they show that in 2268 and 2269, the Enterprise A covered approximately 90,000LY in 3 seperate trips/destinations yet Voyager was going to take 70 years to cover 70,000LY. Speaking of Voyager, the book also fails to mention Voyager's trip to Rinax/Talax whick was 300 LY in the opposite direction. I don't think the book can be regarded as canon material either.


 * Star Charts is not regarded as canon material, it is non-canon allowed reference material. As for mistakes, it is not conclusively determined that warp travel follows any strict overall rules galaxy wide as what distances can be crossed in what time. More on this can be seen in background section for warp factor. It is evident from various films and episodes from all serieses that some routes are simply faster to cross than others with simple warp drive. --Pseudohuman 01:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Huh?
Obviously the point between dimension had disappeared since no one expected to find it eighteen years later.

What does this mean? -- Captain MKB 02:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that is talking about how 18 years prior to TMP, when the Enterprise visited there in, there was no barrier. Instead there was a point allowing travel between dimensions. Therefore, the barrier and planet "must" have formed in the intervening years. It's pretty damn nitpickish if you ask me. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Beat me to it Cobra, and it is a bit nitpickish. - Archduk3:talk 02:14, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd support removal. A user (who has been permanently banned from MA) has opened a Memory Beta talk page asking why we don't take into account the "facts" here, and the facts here seem flawed. After all, there's a lot of assumptions involved with "Magicks", ST5, and "Course Oblivion" in any case -- the first being that "the center of the galaxy" in real life is a dense region larger than the fictional UFP -- meaning the Great Barrier could very well be over a quarter of the galaxy in diameter, making it easily reachable at conventional speeds from the UFP, as the edge would be not that very far away. This would presuppose a much different course "to", "through" or "around" the barrier in all three cases.

Anyway, only ST5 mentions the Barrier -- so this article shouldn't really have much on the other sources that mentioned the center, but not the barrier. After all, the barrier was never mentioned to encompass a large space, or to be a uniform shape. only that it was between the UFP and the center. -- Captain MKB 02:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, if the Great Barrier was just a "wierd nebula" between UFP and the center, that would not make sense, as it was keeping God from escaping the planet at the center of the galaxy. So it had to surround the center of the galaxy. I don't think it is nitpicking to state that there was no barrier in 2269, because there wasn't. If we assume there was, then we assume there was a retcon between the ep and the movie, in otherwords we assume there is a contradiction in canon even though there is no reason to assume there was, that would also be against ma policy: to the greatest extent possible valid resources should be construed so as not to be in conflict. --Pseudohuman 11:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The article already states that it didn't exist. The note above is unnecessary. &mdash; Morder (talk) 11:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Pseudo, what if it were an elongated shape that didn't extend as far into the other quadrants? That's all I meant by that. And the fact that what you call a "wierd nebula" is in real life so crowded with stars, and collapsing ones at that, that a barrier would not make much of a difference -- if a 24th century Federation starship with multiphasic shields could barely survive the corona of a star, you would not be able to venture even halfway to the actual galactic center -- you'd fry. this is real-life cosmological makeup i'm talking about -- the area is inimical to any sort of life due to the incredible movement and energies that build up there. -- Captain MKB 12:07, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, true it is hard to figure out the exact dimensions of the barrier from canon, all we have is the bg-info from Star Charts. There, are several other examples of "this is impossible according to real science"-nitpicking, which can be solved with one answer, The Star Trek universe is not historically, physically nor scientifically 1:1 with the real universe. There is a slight deviation in everything to allow all these fantastic stories to be told. :) --Pseudohuman 13:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed note
I removed a note to, as I didn't think that it was really relevant considering the Barrier wasn't mentioned. Others might not agree, however, so I'm posting it here for future discussion. -Angry Future Romulan 23:46, January 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * In 2375, the Silver Blood USS Voyager intended to cut through the center of the galaxy on its journey to Sector 001

Coordinates
"To add to the inconsistencies, Kirk gives the coordinates of the ship during this voyage to be 000-mark-2."

It should be noted that when Kirk gives these coordinates, they have not arrived at the barrier yet. They were on course with it at the time he sent out the message, which accounts for the "mark-2" coordinate.--Trip 05:49, January 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would say in that case that that portion should be removed, then, not explained away, as it would then be a nitpick.--31dot 11:32, January 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Removed it. It does seem to be a nitpick, as coordinates have been given before with the X-mark-X style in Trek. --Pseudohuman 14:20, January 19, 2012 (UTC)