User:OuroborosCobra/PageII




 * Warning! You have entered a zone that likes Klingons! If you are one of those petaQs who doesn't, then I'd move on to another page, and quickly, you verengan Ha'DIbaH!

With that out of the way, we can move on.

Why do I like Klingons?

 * Warning! Page is still under construction by prisoners from the penal asteroid Rura Penthe!

Size of the Federation Starfleet
The size of Starfleet has been a bone of contention throughout Star Trek, mainly in what seems to be inconsistencies. We've gone from a time where fans believed there were 12 ships (and just one class), to the loss of 39 ships being a "massive blow" to the entire fleet, to engagements with half a grand of ships or more (and that group not the least comprising the entire fleet), and losses being counted weekly in numbers possibly exceeding the "massive blow" of 39.

How can this all be reconciled? How big is Starfleet? Has the size changed? If so, how? Well, I've decided to answer some of those questions here, both with direct information clearly stated in canon, as well as my own speculation. I should make clear that I am not intending this as an exercise in "fanon". While much of the information isn't expressly stated, is speculation, I do not intend it to be baseless or outlandish just to sound cool.

22nd Century
We of course have very little information on the strengths of the 22nd century Starfleet. Technically speaking, we've only really had 2 minutes or so of footage that take place during or after the founding ceremony (2161) within the timeline proper (not an alternative timeline). For the sake of argument, let's say that the new Starfleet was made up of the ships from the navies of the joining powers, not just Earth. That said, we have information on the capabilities of the fleets of the major powers that formed the Federation, Earth, Tellar, Andoria, and Vulcan, as of 2154 (much from the Romulan drone-ship crisis). Let's start with the alien powers.


 * insert information from the near Andorian-Vulcan war during the Kir'Shara crisis

Vulcan is known to have a sizeable fleet, though the political upheaval from the Kir'Shara incident did reduce this to the point that they could only muster 23 ships during an emergency. This was not limited to speed limitations, but apparently lack of crew due to the disbanding of the High Command.

We do not have precise numbers on the Andorians and the Tellarites, but we know that Tellerite shiips were not considered capable of standing up to Andorians one on one, and yet were considered a significant threat of war that would be detrimental to both powers. That suggests a larger fleet than the Andorians, but less capable per ship. During the Romulan drone ship crisis, a fleet of 128 ships is gathered. When we account for the 23 Vulcan ships and 1 Earth ship (Earth ships were silly and slow, too far away to get to the crisis), that leaves 104 ships for the Andorians and Tellarites. Now, I don't really need to speculate any further then this, we have enough information by saying "some total of 104 for Andorians and Tellarites", but for mild amusement I am going to say

Enterprise (Series)
Enterprise was an interesting twist of the series. I think that fans initially did not give it enough credit. From the first episode, they picked on little details that they decided were breaking canon when in fact the established canon was flexible enough that new stuff could be made up (an example being contact with the Klingons, which fans decided had to be 2218, even though this was never firmly established). This was partly the curse the writers had to live with. They were making a prequel to a well established history, and one that fans did not want to see deviated from.

Many fans immediately picked on the "Temporal Cold War" idea. They hated it. I didn't particularly like itat first, but I was willing to give it a chance, and see it through. I think it ended up being handled well. I'll get more into that later. Fans were so willing to pick on this show that they even decided to hate the opening credits. They did not like that someone was singing during it. They had a fan base that was simply unwilling to accept anything that they did. I bet if the opening credits had been the same, but without lyrics, there would have been complaints about all the historical images shown. If not that, the fans wold have found something to complain about.

God, I really pity the creators of this show. fans started a petition to get the credits changed. I am proud of the fact that I did not sign the petition. I almost started a counter petition, one that would express fan approval of the new series. Some later errors, which I shall describe later, made me decide against it. It's not that I did not like the show anymore, it's just that some careless non-writing (VFX) were made, so I was not about to spend a lot of time creating my own petition. I still wasn't going to sign one against them.

Mistakes
Enterprise made some mistakes which really could have, and should have been avoided.

The Ship
The look of Enterprise was a good example. Yes, there have been good explanations for why it was OK to have a ship that looked a lot like the Akira of the 24th century. The problem is that there had to be explanations in the first place. When I first saw the ship, I was pissed. I felt that it looked way to advanced. Now, once we actually say more of the ship, that fear was more alleviated. It was not a super advanced ship. The other reason I was pissed was that even if it was not too advanced looking, it was obvious from the start that they were cutting corners. Here was a brand new series, and rather than spend the money and time to make a brand new ship, they just modified an old model they had lying around on someones hard drive.

Imagine how much trouble they could have avoided if they had just made a new ship. If it had not looked like a class from the 24th century, no one would have accused it of being too advanced looking. No one would have been pissed.

In the end, they used this design. Live with it. It was not a deal breaker for the series.

Ships From Established Species
Here is one of my biggest problems with Enterprise. Ships from established species, specifically the Klingons and the Romulans. The first Klingon ship we get a good look at is from. We are led to believe that a D-7 was in service in the 2150s. Well, that just doesn't work. Not only that, but the CG model used, isn't even a D-7. It is the ship from Voyager's, which was supposed to be a D-7, but ended up being the model for the K't'inga. Therefore, they showed a K't'inga in use in the 2150s. That was a big mistake. They should have delayed the episode until they could make another model, like the D-5.

Then the Romulan Bird-of-Prey. It looks like a descendant of the TOS version, like something from TNG, not from before TOS. They should have picked a new look, like they sort of did for the drone ship much later on. Don't get me started on the cloaking device. There will be a whole section devoted to that.


 * Warning! Page is still under construction by prisoners from the penal asteroid Rura Penthe!

Other Star Trek Stuff

 * Warning! Page is still under construction by prisoners from the penal asteroid Rura Penthe!

Borg
The Borg is something that I felt Star Trek Voyager ruined. I was four years old when first aired, and it scared me to death. I was a frightened little boy. did nothing to reduce my fear of the Borg.

The idea of the of the collective mind was both intriguing, and scary. I never thought of the Borg as mindless, but as one huge collective mind.

First Contact, while one of the better movies, was the start of their downfall in my mind. The idea of the Borg Queen was against how the Borg were supposed to work. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  18:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Warning! Page is still under construction by prisoners from the penal asteroid Rura Penthe!

Transwarp Drive

 * Warning! Page is still under construction by prisoners from the penal asteroid Rura Penthe!

My Favorite Ship Classes

 * Warning! Page is still under construction by prisoners from the penal asteroid Rura Penthe!

Image Deletion Discussions
The following discussions are ones that I dragged up out of history of Memory Alpha:Images for deletion. They are kept here because there is as of yet no other archive, and these raise important points.

File:Fed sabre.jpg

 * I don't believe this image is truely *fair use* since it is not a screen cap and (more than likely) comes from a published source. --Alan del Beccio 23:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Jaz talk |undefined 01:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- Cid Highwind 11:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Aholland 17:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. And that source is, Star Trek: The Magazine. - AJ Halliwell 07:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

File:Fed steamrunner.jpg

 * I don't believe this image is truely *fair use* since it is not a screen cap and (more than likely) comes from a published source. --Alan del Beccio 23:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Jaz talk |undefined 01:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- Cid Highwind 11:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Aholland 17:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. And that source is, Star Trek: The Magazine. - AJ Halliwell 07:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

File:Fanfilm harriman.JPG

 * File:Fanfilm harriman.JPG: Okay, trying this again. This image has remained unused even after being kept from the last discussion. However, it really shouldn't have even been kept, as I do believe it is a copyright infringement. --From Andoria with Love 09:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- 6/6  Subspace 09:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm the one who nominated it for deletion the first time. As you might guess, my opinion has not changed. Delete. --OuroborosCobra talk 13:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. But also, what an odd way to find out about this fan film. Do we have pages on the various fan film projects? If not, we should make some :) -- Harry  talk 11:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup, we do. Over at "fan films". They don't get their own articles, instead one big one for all of them, since they are about as non-canon as you can get. --OuroborosCobra talk 11:14, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Rear Admiral

 * File:TNG RAdmLH.jpg:
 * Not canon, in fact it quite clearly says that it is "conjectural". --Alan del Beccio 08:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Evidently it was intended to replace File:Tng radmlh.png. --Alan del Beccio 09:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd agree that the insignia might be too speculative -- it was never seen or created on the series -- i've already nominated some of my own images for deletion, i'd been wondering if this would be next (but many believe that this rank can be inferred to exist). neutral until more discussion
 * Off the topic of canon, i'd prefer the versions of my own artwork to have transparent backgrounds i designed for them -- replacing them with new versions might be possible if consensus exists to create another MA-oriented uniform system of displaying them -- but i feel transparency is useful at this point. Original artwork of others depicting insignia i havent drawn yet are welcome, and could be edited to comply also. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I hadn't actually realized how deep into the project the user was when I posted the original image, and did not realize that it previously existed. The fact that the image blatantly said "conjectural" kind of made it stand out. --Alan del Beccio 16:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * File:Tng radmlh.png
 * Neutral This image also illustrates a pin never seen or designed in the series, but one that can be inferred to exist from the rank system.
 * The reason I want the community to discuss this, without casting a vote myself, is to see whether having the conjectural versions of the rank insignia is a good idea, if simply for background illustration
 * Also, the above contributor thinks the insignia would take a slightly different form. Any input on this? I noticed that the canon vice-admiral and rear admiral pins were the same width, adding extra space on the lower rank between the pips and the border, so i figured the unseen pin might follow suit -- possibly others might red into the ST Encyclopedia, which is this insignia's prime claim to canon -- it was assumed to be used by okuda and crew.. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Fleet Captain

 * File:Movie O07 - Fleet Captain.jpg
 * Speaking of which, this subject matter was already submitted for deletion -- fleet captain wasnt used in the movie era as a separate insignia. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * File:Mov fcapt.png
 * Oops -- i guess this image had been removed from the table and remains used as an illustration -- this pin wasn't designed by Robert Fletcher, however -- it was created by a non-canon reference book after the fact. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:23, 8 February 2006 (UTC

MCPO-SF

 * File:Movie E10 - Master CPO Of Starfleet.jpg
 * The position "MCPO of Starfleet" was not (to my knowledge) part of Fletcher's rank design, nor can the insignia be found onscreen. The rank has never been mentioned on Star Trek. If anyone has further information, supply it or else i feel we should remove the image. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 21:58, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Deleted -19:33, 18 February 2006 (UTC)