Talk:Northwest Passage

Folks, there isn't a real Northwest Passage. The explorers were looking for an easy, convenient route through the continent, obviously they never found one so there isn't really a Northwest Passage. The fact that a few heavily fortified ice-breakers have been able to make the trip doesn't mean they ever found the Northwest Passage they were looking for. IT DOESN'T EXIST.

I'm fixing this page again, and I suggest that the next time someone wants to undo it, they take a few moments to study the facts they're relying on when editing these articles.Gotham23 14:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Except for the fact that there's nothing stating that the "northwestern passage" is an easy one. Yes, they never found an easy passage.  Despite that, all of the waterways up there, which, while covered by ice most of the time, still connect from one end to the other, are still termed the "northwest passage".


 * Hell, right from the first sentence of the Wikipedia article:


 * The Northwest Passage is a sea route connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans through the Arctic Archipelago of Canada. The various islands of the archipelago are separated from one another and the Canadian mainland by a series of Arctic waterways collectively known as the Northwest Passages or Northwestern Passages.


 * That's why we have a link there. That way people can learn the facts of the matter.  All we present is the facts from the Star Trek POV, and sometimes a brief small background note connecting it to a real world thing.  That's quickly followed up with a link to somewhere else so that people can read and learn for themselves.


 * As it stands, there is a "Northwest Passage". It's not exactly passable, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Especially since some ships can make, and have made, the journey.  Just not all of 'em. -- Sulfur 15:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, there is a fault in logic in saying that there is no passage just because all ships cannot pass.


 * That would be akin to saying that "the sound barrier was never broken" because, after all, not all planes and vehicles have broken the sound barrier. -- Captain MKB 15:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to spend much time pointing out that you should never site Wikipedia as factual evidence of ANYTHING...even in another wiki. It's just not a reliable source. But moving on, you've all overlooked one thing. It's called a "passage" for a reason, and not simply a "route." If ships go all the way to the Arctic Circle, they're not "passing" through the continent. They're going around it. Going around the continent is precisely what they were trying to avoid when they were looking for a Northwest Passage.

But whatever, people. If you want to argue semantics like a bunch of wise guys, be my guest. That "Northwest Passage" they were looking for - the one that was supposed to make commercial shipping easier, faster, and cheaper - was never found and doesn't exist. We all know that...why you want to pretend it's real is a mystery to me, but it's not that important. What's funny, though, is that you've all missed the irony here...that "Northwest Passage" Voyager was heading for turned out to be just like it's legendary namesake. It was a mirage. Gotham23 14:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Just as an aside, I am Canadian and have been told a number of times that this passage does, indeed, exist. Just because it didn't perform up to what it was expected, and that it can be crowded with ice, doesn't mean it's not a passage. ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius...I'm listening 14:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, I'd like to point out that the "Northwest Passage" Voyager found was still there. It was just extremely deadly and hazardous to go through it. Just like it was for an 18th century sailing ship to travel around North America.
 * Here's the opening of the two-column entry for Northwest Passage in my 1990 copy of the Encyclopaediae Brittaenicae:
 * "historical sea passage of the North American continent, representing centuries of effort to find a route from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean through the Arctic archipelago of what became Canada. One of the world's severest maritime challenges, the route is located 500 miles (800 km) north of the Arctic Circle and less than 1,200 miles (1,930 km) from the North Pole."
 * So, according to Brittaenicae, the Northwest Passage from there is connected scholastically to the legendary passage that some Europeans looked for. There's even a good picture showing the route of the Manhattan in 1969 that clearly shows them taking this Passage underneath most of the North American/Arctic islands (Queen Elizabeth Islands) and just north of the Yukon and Alaska but below the Arctic Ocean "permanent ice pack," implying there was little ice-breaking involved.--Tim Thomason 14:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Besides, the ice caps will have melted by next Tuesday thanks to SUV emissions, and the passage will be just perfect for yachting. Good night everybody! -- Captain MKB 18:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Well I'm getting pretty much the same response on the talk page at wikipaedia, so that's that. Gotham23 05:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I was wrong...
It's the NorthEAST passage that was never found because it doesn't exist...an easy way to get from the the New York/New England/Canadian Maritime region to the Pacific without having to circumnavigate the continent. They hoped the Hudson River or Hudson Bay would be it, but obviously neither of them panned out.

So I make a big stink about nothing. Sorry.– Gotham23 17:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)