Talk:Earth

FA nomination (June 2004, Failed)
Various people have contributed to this article and jointly created what i consider a very good overview of one of the most important locations in the Trek-universe. However, there are still numerous dead links among the cities and the orbital facilities. --BlueMars 20:55, Jun 18, 2004 (CEST)
 * True, but in the explination itself there are almost no dead links (one). Only in the "reference list". I think this could make a good nominated article, though there might still be some info added. Ottens 14:30, 22 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Seconded. If this article is featured, the dead links will fill up themselves. -- Redge 15:49, 22 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Oppose for now. Although the dead links are IMO not a good reason to deny featured article status, I still think there's more information that needs to be added to this article, particularly in the area of history and events in the Trek universe. -- Dan Carlson 20:27, 26 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * I hadn't thought of that. Change my vote to oppose. -- Redge 21:37, 26 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * It's a good article, but a lot of red/dead links need to be filled up first. For now, opposed. Ottens 21:54, 27 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Red links are definitely not a valid reason to oppose, IMO. But, the article could definitely do with expansion. -- Michael Warren 00:46, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)
 * Yes, you are right. Sorry. However, I still think Star Trek's most important planet could have more info. Certainly concerning the events seen in Star Trek, there could be more info added. Now it looks more like a timeline/summery of events... Ottens 19:57, 28 Jun 2004 (CEST)

Species
The Humans entry mentions that humans are one of 4 intelligent species to originate on Earth, what are the others?

Humpback Whale, Voth, Human and the other is a species of humanoid referenced by Phlox, he makes reference to them when talking about how so many types of Xindi could come from one world, I think.


 * Is it possible Phlox is referring to the Voth? Perhaps Earth paleontologists have, by the 22nd century, discovered evidence of an ancient humanoid race--enough data for Phlox to at least know they existed but not enough for Voyager to immediately recognize that they must have been the Voth.  --Jimsmith 03:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * What episode was this statement from? I cannot find it.  Aholland 03:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused too. Besides, I only count 2 sentient species: Voth and Human, the former unconfirmed. My impression of humpback whales from ST4 was that they were 'seeded' on Earth, not sentient beings themselves. Jaz talk]] 04:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

In episode 13 of Enterprise season 1, Phlox makes reference to another species, saying about how what if aliens had given them the advantage over humans or something during evolution--165.228.130.12 05:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe this was a reference to Neanderthal.

I don't believe I've ever heard of dolphins serving on board a starship, canon or otherwise. (No reference to dolphin in the Encyclopedia, and I'm sure that a dolphin would have been mentioned in that.) I would love someone to prove me wrong. -- Kooky 18:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You can find more bits of information about dolphins serving aboard starships here, here and here. --Jörg 19:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay. I read through that and still the all the facts for suggesting that dolphins are sentient keep falling back to the TNG:Tech Manual.  I'll cede that there are dolphins on-board the ship, and that a Galaxy Class ship has tanks on board.  But I suggest that it is more likely that these tanks exist on board the ship to facilitate other species similar to the specifically canonized Xindi-Aquatic, or other aquatic research/transportation.  (Additionally, I believe is a more likely explanation for the TNG:TM "Sentient Dolphin" situation is an inside joke and/or homage to Douglas Adams.  Of course, this is just a guess as well.)


 * I suggest "dolphin" be removed from the list of sentient species on the page, as well as Humpback Whale, (also not referred to as sentient in canon, for if it was it would be noted on Humpback whale), but the whales be specifically mentioned as part of the situation occurring in ST:IV. -- Kooky 20:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Cities
Do the mentioned cities have to be ones mentioned in the 23-24th centuries, or cities that have been mentioned or visited throughout trek history?


 * Any city seen or mentioned in a Trek episode or movie is definitely fodder for a Memory Alpha article. -- Dan Carlson 15:18, 28 May 2004 (CEST)

Cities lost in WW3?
Is there any source material on which cities were lost in WW3, and which were rebuilt? Obviously Paris and San Francisco.


 * I might be misunderstanding you, but I don't think that it was ever said or implied that Paris and San Francisco were lost/rebuilt. As far as I am aware, we don't know about any other city, either. -- Cid Highwind 16:32, 26 Oct 2004 (CEST)
 * It seems to me that San Francisco would present an inviting target to an ICBM launched from across the Pacific. But there has never been any mention of which cities, though Riker mentioned that "Most" of the major cities had been destroyed.--Andrew

I think the photos should be spread throughout the page and not be in the data-table. Also, why do we need a picture of the Borg-ified Earth?- B-101 02:54, 1 Nov 2004 (CET)

Washington DC & Moscow must have been Nuked in WWIII being the Governmental Cities of the two largest powers of the War? Tokyo was contacted in ST: IV TVH for a weather report do to the Probe, Picard took a shuttle from London to his Brother's home after the Best of Both Worlds, and if Luna has a city called New Berlin then Old Berlin might be around as well.


 * I've got a feeling that considering so many cities have been named, and when we see them they look remarkably like they do in our time, that WW III was a different kind of WMD war. A nuetron bomb would "destroy" a major city (in terms of population) and certainly wipe out any governments in targeted capitals. --Brad Rousse 21:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Australia and the World Government
What is the objection to stating that Australia was the last country to join the World Government?--Andrew11-06-04 15:26 PST
 * Beverly just used Australia as an example--if Australia had held out and not joined the government, would Earth still have been eligible to be a Federation member? She never said that it was the last to join. -- SmokeDetector47 00:34, 7 Nov 2004 (CET)

Moved from Talk:Earth (mirror)

 * According to William Shatner's novel Spectre (a non-canon source) dealing with the mirror universe, Alliance ships reduced mirror-Earth to a barren wasteland. Humans were enslaved by the Alliance.

I moved this to discussion because it refers to william shatner's, poorly, ghost written, self glorifying, novel series... which I ignore, and thus consider non-cannon -- Special:Contributions/172.139.57.150 23:18, 5 May 2005 (UTC)


 * That seems a bit unfair and, frankly, arrogant to say your views of canon should be held above all in this article. Many other articles have novel material (including from Mr. Shatner) put in them, why should this be different? --Brad Rousse 23:38, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

What on Earth? (bad pun)
Federation Status
 * Unlike the other members of the Federation Earth does not have a planetary government. Earth is actually an administrative district of the Federation.


 * The Federation organizes Earth into five operative regions: Americas, Africa, Europe, Asia, and Oceania. Each region is further divided into territories (which roughly correspond to the old nation-states), then areas (roughly corresponding to the old states/ provinces), then districts, and finally individual communities such as cities, villages or townships.

As far as I can tell, this is speculation. It's not cited, and some of it sounds just wrong, (ie: oceania hasn't been mentioned on trek I don't think). - AJHalliwell 05:11, 27 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Citations and Rework Needed
There are many, many claims of fact in this article that do not have any citations to back them up. An unnamed user recently made some date changes, too, but - again - without backup. The style also needs some help; statements like "However, it is not clear what competences these institutions carry" is - I think - inappropriate outside of Background. And I'm not at all sure why this can't simply describe the physical features of Earth, with a link to Human History for what the people on the Earth did. Any thoughts? Aholland 04:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I don't think we need two articles – Earth and Human history – giving the same information. Earth should be about Earth, Human history sohlud be about the people of Earth and events they participated in. --From Andoria with Love 05:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Based on the above, I revised the article to discuss major planetary events rather than Human (or Voth for that matter) historical events. Aholland 19:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Images removed from article
The sidebar had a bunch of images that were (besides being images "from" earth) unrelated to any content on the page. I removed the following ones from the article - they can, of course, be re-added if they are important in some context and not just "padding"... -- Cid Highwind 16:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

United Earth
Earth needs to be referred to as United Earth's primary planet, because ENT established that United Earth was also the political entity to which colonies on Luna, Mars, Alpha Centauri, and Vega belonged. Besides, saying that Earth is United Earth makes about as much sense as saying that Europe is the European Union -- one refers to geography, and the other to the political entity which inhabits that geography. -- Sci 20:16 26 DEC 2006 UTC
 * Yeah, I did the revert to put that note back, and was about to write that here. Nice to have people that agree with each other :-) --OuroborosCobra talk 20:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * ) Muchos gracias! -- Sci 20:20 26 DEC 2006 UTC
 * Hmm... I stand corrected. United Earth is comprised of the various Earth nation-states unified as one government, but I didn't think about the various Earth colonies located on other planets. --From Andoria with Love 21:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Earth Government as of 24th century
Does Earth have its own government? In the President of the Federation is the main player in the changeling infiltration crisis, when you would expect the President of Earth to be involved. Also, Starfleet is the primary actor in Earth defense; you'd expect there to be a domestic terrestrial police force. Wratched 12:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the script writers just left most of that out but its VERY accurate what you said. I for one beleive that Earth would not only have its own President, but an Earth Congress and an Earth Defense Force to also include a Terran Police.  Kind of like Missouri for example has a Governor, Legislature, and the Missouri National Guard and Missouri State Police.  Star Trek shows a lot of the Federation, which would be the equivalent of a "federal level".  My theroy is this: local government (towns and cities) -> country regions (states, provinces, etc) -> countries (USA, UK, Germany, France, Mongolia, etc) -> Planets (Earth) -> Interstellar Government (UFP).  Quite a bunch of civics there, but thats how I think the UFP is put together and each level would have its own executive, judicial, police, legislative, and military force (except for maybe cities which wouldnt have thier own militaries). -FleetCaptain 22:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * ENT establishes that Earth is the primary planet of United Earth, and nothing has established that UE ceased to exist when it joined with the Vulcan, Andorian, and Tellarite states to form the Federation (whose name implies a federal structure and ergo the continued existence of UE). Ronald D. Moore addresses your question, Wratched,, where he says:
 * We wanted to tell the story of an attempted military coup of the Federation and that meant dealing with the Fed president. However, that meant the troops "in the streets" had to be on Earth and that Earth itself had to be under martial law since the Fed is headquartered on Earth. We discussed having the Prez "federalize" the Earth defense forces or supercede the authority of an indigenous Earth Govt, but the story kept getting too complicated and we didn't want to start mentioning all these other players and organizations that we weren't going to see. So in the end, we skirted the issue of who actually governs Earth. Personally, I think there is an Earth Govt that operates like more powerful versions of States do in the US system, but this is all VERY murky water.
 * So it seems fairly probable that Earth has its own government, even though, being the capital planet, the Federation government itself is directly involved in Earth's defense. For whatever it's worth, the non-canonical short story "Eleven Hours Out," from the anthology Tales of the Dominion War, establishes that United Earth retains its own government into the 24th Century, where the Prime Minister of United Earth joins the President of the United States and the President of the United Federation of Planets in touring the devestated City of San Francisco after the Breen attack. This is consistent with the later ENT novel The Good That Men Do, where Nathan Samuels is depicted as Prime Minister. The novella The Future Begins, from the Corps of Engineers series, contains a reference to a United Earth President from the time of the Earth-Romulan War, but this isn't necessarily inconsistent, as several parliamentary governments have both presidents and prime ministers (Israel, Italy, and Ireland, for instance). Given the canonical reference to Samuels as being a "minister," and the non-canonical references to PMs, I would tend to presume that United Earth retains its own parliamentary government with a Parliament, Prime Minister, and President. -- Sci 05:41 25 JAN 2008 UTC

Rewrite / Update
Today I did a rewrite / update of the article, trying to remove non-canon items from it, as well as reorganize the information.
 * Adjusted Location Information
 * Rewrote almost entire History section
 * Removed external link to World History site, as ST:Earth history developed differently.
 * Moved "See Also" section information to respective section, eliminated section.
 * Directly referenced "Redirect" links on found topics (ie: Cetacean/Takaya's Whales)
 * Various spelling corrections
 * Sorted the various lists.

I do however need some help determining, was Earth ever referred to as "Sol III"? I don't ever remember it.

As usual, feel free to update and tweak. -- Kooky 04:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Canon Statistics in sidebar
Looking at the Mars discussion, it is stated that all the statistics that are real world scientific stats are not canon unless they are mentioned in canon Trek. Are all the stats in the sidebar then non-canon for Earth as well (i.e. diameter, mass, etc.) Should these be removed if we are going to say that this is not canon? Has this information been mentioned or seen in Trek somewhere? 74.204.40.46 21:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Appearances
Added an appearances section as in many other articles, but it is not complete, as I don't know much about TOS episodes or ENT episodes. If anyone could help and add them in there it would be helpful. I made it say only when Earth actually appears, not holodecks, visions, credits, etc. As this would be most likely way too long to try to do. 74.204.40.46 01:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Combined Page - moved from Talk:Earth (mirror)
We have combined pages for mirror universe starships and mirror universe cultures, I think we should also have mirror universe planets and not individual ones like this one and "Qo'nos (mirror)". Kennelly 08:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * First, that merge target doesn't even exist. Second, I think if a "(mirror)" counterpart doesn't get its own article, information about it should be on the main universe version (here: Earth), not on some aggregate article. -- Cid Highwind 11:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't exist yet, so what, it can still be created when the merge is agreed. And, if we should follow your proposal (which I oppose) we should be consequent and delete the other two combined pages mentioned above. Kennelly 12:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I Agree with Cid. It should fall in the Earth page, somewhere with the parallel universe/alternate timeline section. Creating an aggregate page like that spells trouble, in my opinion. It makes it that much more difficult to locate information on a topic when you have to hunt for it, or even if it is linked, the fact that you have to jump around to different pages to collect all the information for one subject is laborious. --Alan 12:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The mirror universe starships page is simply a listing of all the individual mirror universe starship articles and is not an aggregate page, so the argument about deleting it is moot. The mirror universe cultures is an aggregate page, though, and probably should be merged with the various regular species pages. I agree with Cid as well that the mirror planet pages should be merged with their regular counterparts. -- Renegade54 14:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Before all mirror planet articles are merged... ;) I think a merge should only be done if there's not "enough" info for a separate (mirror) article. If there's extensive information, keep them separate. -- Cid Highwind 17:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Protection due to religious statement
The article has just been protected since User:Preator has added several times the statement:

"many people in the Federation do not agree with the theory of evolution"

and it was reverted by three other users, after each time Preator restored. The statement is not supported in canon as there is no episode or film where this is backed up or stated in any way, shape, or form. -FleetCaptain 22:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This statement is supported by canon sources. There are several shows that involved religion, showing that it still exists on Earth in the 24th century. Examples, the chapel in, and the ensign praying in the same episode. Kasidy Yates said her mother would prefer her to be married by a minister, and she told Benjamin Sisko she married him but didn't convert. All I added to the page was two sentences noting that some people still beleive in christian beliefs and put a simple link to the Christian article. User:Preator Jan 3, 2008


 * Praetor, not a single example you have given talks about evolution. Not one. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

When the article gets unprotected, here is my recommedation for a compromising paragraph:


 * Earth has been the birthplace of several major religions, such as Christianity and Judaism. Some of these religions, in one form or the other, have survived to the 23rd and 24th century. 

It gives Preator his link and doesnt talk about evolution. A good solution, I think. -FleetCaptain 12:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me – Cleanse 12:27, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Generally, that sort of information (and perhaps some of the current content of this article as well) would probably be more relevant at "Human" - so, if someone wants to do some copyediting... ;) However, a small note wouldn't really hurt, either. -- Cid Highwind 12:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

-- Rom Ulan 12:51, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds fair and square, FleetCaptain. It's about religion, but does not step on anyones toes.


 * I am willing to accept this compromise. I just saw no reason why religion was not allowed to be put on an article about earth. But if you are willing to let that paragraph be put in the article I will not change it. -- Preator 07:31, January 3, 2007 (CST)

Great! So many responses also so early in the morning. I wonder where everyone is writing in from. -FleetCaptain 14:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

A much less controversial problem with our statement on evolution...
Like most non-Americans I find this whole 'creationism' thing pretty funny...but that being said there is one issue with our statement on evolution that's a little problematic. Contrary to our statement, I don't think it was ever made clear in Star Trek IV that humpback whales evolved on Earth - I rather got the impression that they an alien lifeform placed on Earth. I guess this relates to how we define evolve - clearly a species placed in a new environment over thousands+ years will adapt to its settings, but that isn't clear in our current statement. Thoughts? --- Jaz 20:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I Agree. It has to evolve during a period of thousands of years. and; i can't really see the thing about humpback whales not evolved on earth.-- Rom Ulan 20:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I would kind of be on your side about the humpies but I have had the privelege of meeting Howard Weinstein who was on the writing staff of STIV. The general idea of the plot was that aliens had visited Earth and befriended the humpback whales who had been on Earth "far longer than man...10 million years earlier" which matches the evolution pattern of whales.  It is possible they were planeted, but then so is the case with any lifeform on Earth unless it is said otherwise.  I also dont think the writers of STIV intended to say humpback whales were seeded on Earth.  That is my thought on the matter. -FleetCaptain 21:33, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to say that I thought that humpbacks had been planted on earth, just that during those thousands of years, it would have to have evolved.-- Rom Ulan 21:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * "Negative. Humpbacks are indigenous to Earth". Seems to me they didn't evolve elsewhere given that canon statement. &mdash; Morder 19:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Indigenous" doesn't mean the same thing as "endemic". "Endemic" means "found nowhere else". Anyway, it's plain that they believed humpbacks to be unknown elsewhere. Still, "indigenous" does not rule out that humpbacks could have spread themselves among other worlds, either after evolving here or after evolving somewhere else. If they were planted by non-cetacean aliens, that would rule out indigenousness. --99.163.50.12 20:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

from Forum:Earth's name in the Mirror Universe
Discussion moved from Forum:Earth's name in the Mirror Universe:

Here is a question that I am not to sure of, In the Mirror universe, what is Earth referred to as? I see different sources using the name "Earth" and "Terra". I'm not to sure which one is the "canon" name (Or are they both canon?)--Terran Officer 07:51, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * answer possibly Terra Prime --


 * What is the canon basis for that answer? --OuroborosCobra talk 22:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * in the miror univers earth terra has a vast empire earth is decriped as terra and prime is the greek word for overlord or main so the name terra prime is logical (oh god i'm turning into a Vulcan)  31s october 2007 16:14 PM EST


 * it was called the terran empire.terra is the semi-scietfic name for earth,so its most likely terra prime or just terra...Sect.oficer danuis 00:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * None of which is canon. All we have in canon is that one was called "Terran Empire", and in another universe there was a short lived group called "Terra Prime". No canon basis for a relationship. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The empire in the mirror universe is/was called the Terran Empire right? So, logic dictates that the planet it originated from is called Terra (them in the mirror universe being the egomaniacs that they are, they probably named their empire after themselves.)
 * For the record, it was referred to as "Earth" like 7 times in, once in . --Alan 23:13, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Category
Just wondering why this article is in the "The Adventures of Captain Proton" category? I thought maybe it was added by an anon and removed it but it was added again by a registered member. Can anyone tell me what it Earth itself has to do with Captain Proton? -- TrekFan Talk 18:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The President of Earth was in an episode? I don't know why else it would be included. &mdash; Morder 18:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

But it still wouldn't belong in the category, just because it was mentioned. A category is for a group of similar items. If you look in the Cpt Proton cat, there are things like Raygun, death ray and Planet X. I see no reason why Earth should be in this cat. -- TrekFan Talk 19:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Earth is a place mentioned in the program. The category is about "people, places and technology from" the Proton holoprogram.  Seems pretty clear.  If we don't include things in categories that were only mentioned, we would have to weed out quite a few things from categories. --31dot 19:30, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Life on Earth
..."plus or minus two _eons_" ? Eons? That's kind of open-ended and just awkward. – Distantlycharmed 02:27, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think it was speaking of eons in the geologic time scale. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was aware of that. I just think that it is a big +/- – Distantlycharmed 04:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is, and probably not accurate either. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

A few revisions
So, I first added Voth to the Info box as a Native Species, as I could see no discernible reason why they were not already there. I then made all of the references to governmental bodies on Earth past tense, as per MA:POV. I took out the bit about "homeworld to Humanity" for a few reasons: (1) it's already stated elsewhere in the article, (2) it's common real world knowledge, and (3) I was trying to avoid the statement "Earth WAS the homeworld of Humanity", which some people seem to fear would be a jarring statement.

I also changed "United Earth" to "the United Earth government", because I, like Shran, first read that statement and said, "Uh, duh?", and I think this qualifier might make the meaning clearer. I also took out some completely useless spacing toward the bottom.

I wanted to make the reason for my edits clear, as this is obviously a "high profile" page. ~ Jbshryne 19:07, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Homeworld in Introduction?
Shouldn't the introductory paragraph on Earth say something about being the homeworld to the Human race?


 * Also the Voth. Would it also be possible to slim down the citations in the opening, perhaps with an "et al"?--31dot 10:44, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Terra?

 * "In the mirror universe, Earth was sometimes referred to as Terra."

When did that happen? I only recall it ever being referred to as Earth. - Mitchz95 (talk) 02:37, June 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Only reference I can find is when Archer says regarding Cochrane's shotgun: "He used it to kill the first Vulcan who stepped onto Terran soil." which could of course mean "soil belonging to Terrans" or "the soil of Terra". --Pseudohuman (talk) 17:33, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Gaia
Didn't the Ancient Greeks refer to Earth as Gaia? Therefore, shouldn't Gaia be one of the alternate names? SPQR (talk) 16:23, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * In Memory Alpha we only note things that are mentioned on screen in the series, besides, Gaia was a name given to another planet. --Pseudohuman (talk) 17:12, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

OK, just a thought. On another subject, did editing across the wiki just break down for a while? SPQR (talk) 22:19, September 4, 2012 (UTC)