Talk:Third officer

Enterprise 3rd officer?
Who is the third officer of the Enterprise? Worf? Dr. Crusher?
 * I would actually guess it would be Geordi due to his higher rank, although since he is needed in engineering, Worf would likely fill that function. (There is an episode where Data, the second officer, assumes command of the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) and has Worf serving as his first officer. I can't remember the episode's name, but this would seem to imply that Worf is the third officer.) --From Andoria with Love 06:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Found the episodes, they're and . --From Andoria with Love 06:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In, Geordi is put in command of the Enterprise. However, this was before he was Chief Engineer. It is possible he was the Third Officer until he became Chief Engineer, and was then replaced by Worf. AJHayson 03:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

It would also appear that Crusher takes his place once he is Chief Engineer, as she is the only other character I remember seeing command the Enterprise. Some also think she served in this capacity in First Contact when Riker is planet-side and Data is captured. – AJHayson 06:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think during Season 1, Yar was third officer with the rank of full lieutenant and La Forge was lieutenant, junior grade. And Worf did become the fourth highest ranked bridge officer when Geordi became chief engineer. By the 24th Century, lower ranking bridge officers could take command over a higher ranking bridge officer before turning to the chief engineer or the chief medical officer.– Enterprise1981 20:30, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't recall Tasha Yar ever in command of the Enterprise-D before her death, only LaForge or Worf (the former in "Angel One" because Riker or Picard explicitly left him in charge. 74.69.8.195 19:46, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Was anyone listed on the page (apart from Kor) ever explicitly named as third officer or are those just assumptions? Did we ever see Sulu, Paris or Reed take command? Kennelly 08:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think Paris was ever explicitly named third officer, but in he did say that with Janeway and Tuvok away and Chakotay in command, that he (Paris) was now Chakotay's first officer. That would imply that he was the third officer. - Bridge 18:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes we did, Sulu took over when ever Kirk, Spock and Scotty weren't on the bridge, in Arena for example, that's why the four of them only go an away mission together once, and in that event it was because Sulu and Scotty were kidnapped, (Catspaw) --General MGD 109 23:30, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think Geordi was meant to be fifth-in-command of the Enterprise-D. In "Descent" Part I, he's sat at command point with Picard while Riker, Data and Worf are on the surface, as if he's acting first officer. Then Picard says "We need every available crewmember down on the surface, including you and me" and Geordi replies "Who'll command the ship?", suggesting they're the two senior officers onboard. Further evidence of Paris being third officer: He's clearly in command in "Initiations" when Janeway, Chakotay and Tuvok are absent. – Skteosk 21:50, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Jordi Was L/T, Wolf was still L. even Wolf say thst Jordi is a higher officer in episode PEAK PERFORMANCE. But Jordi Declines to engineering of the uss Hatherway. He is capable of that role as he is First officer in the 2parter REDEMTION. Why is he not in engineering at that time. I can recall twice he takes the bridge in the 1st season. But i really Dont think that 3rd incommand doesn't count. Worf is on Bridge command in BEST OF BOTH WORLDS for a moment you can see him standing by the captains chair through the doors of the turbo lift. The captain is still on the bridge the commander is with LTshellby going to meet Laforge in engineering with Data. But Does all this matter. Its just a scifi TV with to many wholes that can only be explained that iits star trek. They can do anything they want. ITS NOT REAL


 * Um...huh? I'm not sure I can even begin to decipher that above comment. Is it even in English? But I've been meaning to add for a while: In "Gambit", when Data's acting captain and Worf's acting first officer, Data suggests if Worf doesn't feel capable of the post he could reassign it to Geordi, which again reinforces their respective places in the command hierarchy. Skteosk (talk) 15:14, October 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * When launched the command structure would have been Picard, Riker, Data, Crusher, Yar, LaForge/Worf then Troi. Crusher out ranks Data but he is the official 2nd officer. Crusher has passed the bridge officers test (she discusses this with Troi when shes considering taking the test), Crusher also exercised the right to act as first officer with both Riker & Data unavailable leaving her Picards highest ranking senior officer on the deck during First Contact. Yar is a full Lieutenant, out ranking junior grades Worf & LaForge. Both Worf & Laforge have commanded eachother in season 1, Worf had the bridge during "Lonely Among Us" when LaForge was on the bridge having a conversation with Wesley. But Laforge commanded the deck in atleast 2 episodes... one being "Arsenal Of Freedom", also in this episode Troi is a Lt Commander but LaForge is given command over her by Picard, I believe the reason everyone seems to out rank Troi out of the senior officers is because until season 7 she wasnt a bridge officer (as she hadnt passed the test). Season 2 LaForge is prommoted to Chief Engineer and Full Lt outranking Worf (established in Peak Performance, but Riker chooses Worf as he wishes hes Tactical Officer in the position), Laforge later becomes Lt Commander - securing senority over Worf. Changing the position to Picard, Riker, Data, Crusher, LaForge, Worf, Troi. It would remain this way until season 7, once Troi completed the Bridge Officers test it would be Picard, Riker, Data, Crusher, Troi, LaForge, Worf. I think Crusher would still outrank Troi as she had been Commander longer.... as stated in VOY - Displaced "On youre feet Torres, thats a order" "you cant order me, were the same rank" "im a Bridge Officer & I have seniority" "Yeah but about 2 days!!!"

Im probably wrong but thats how Ive always seen it --Jaybieboy (talk) 00:21, January 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * My thinking is that in season 1 the order would be Picard, Riker, Data, Yar, LaForge, Worf, Crusher, Troi. Picard gives LaForge command of the ship in "Angel One" ahead of Worf and Crusher. By the time Crusher has a position of authority in First Contact, LaForge is off the ship, Yar's dead and Worf's been transferred to DS9. LaForge's comment in "Descent" about who'll command the ship if he and Picard beam down suggests he'd normally take command ahead of Crusher. In season 2, Worf is made security chief which suggests the order is now Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, LaForge, Crusher when she comes back in season 3 and Troi. "Peak Performance" suggests otherwise but Worf is made acting first officer ahead of LaForge and Crusher in "Gambit" and is considered for first officer in "The Best of Both Worlds" when they don't even seem to be in the running (he actually is made first officer in the alternate timeline seen in "Parallels"). The only real question is does Troi's promotion change anything? I'd say no but she is given command of the bridge ahead of Worf in "Genesis", which if you take it at face value rather than viewing it as an extraordinary occasion (Chekov takes command of the bridge ahead of Spock in ST6 after all) suggests she's ahead of everyone bar Picard, Riker and Data. Skteosk (talk) 12:47, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Fourth in line
Shouldn't the first passage read:
 * ...was the third in line of command of a vessel after the captain.

It presently says fourth. The way that passage reads means it is excluding the captain in the count. The way I see it, after the captain the first officer would be first in line, the second officer the second in line and the third officer the third in line.

Anyone? --- TrekFan Talk 12:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Three years later, I've gone ahead and changed it! :D --| TrekFan Open a channel 23:36, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Kor
Ironically, Kor, the only person who's ever referred to as a third officer, appears to be third-in-command after Martok and Worf (he assumes command when they are both incapacitated), suggesting that it's actually the Klingon equivalent of second officer. Although it is possible the second officer simply wasn't on the bridge at the time. – Skteosk 09:02, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Worf
Isn't Data third officer? As seen in the episode Gambit?


 * No, Data is second officer. That was stated on at least a couple occasions throughout the series. -Mdettweiler 14:37, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Before and After?
Is there any clear evidence that Paris is first officer in the alternate timeline? He might be but he's never actually stated as such or even shown in a command position. At least one guide book claims Tuvok was first officer, which would fit with him being next in seniority after Chakotay and identified as "Commander" (when he was still a lieutenant in the prime timeline). Skteosk 10:06, April 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I may be wrong but from what i remember in Before and After, when the crew celebrate Kes' birthday in the mess hall Tuvok's rank is clearly of a full Lieutenant where as Paris has the rank insignia of Lt Commander, and Kim is now a Full Lieutenant too (suprising he holds the same rank as Tuvok), this being said, its clearly been established that Voyagers rank insignias have always been messed up. Considering Paris moved up 2 steps in rank in quite a short period of time, it looks like he was promoted to out rank Tuvok and Kim and take over Chakotays position of first officer (Jaybieboy (talk) 23:51, January 24, 2013 (UTC))
 * I don't have a particularly high quality copy of the episode but it looks to me as though Tuvok's pips are that of a lieutenant commander in that scene (Neelix even addresses him as "Commander") which actually could mean that he and Paris are equal rank and Paris was made first officer ahead of him, given Tuvok remains in security gold and normally (but not always) first officers wear command red. Skteosk (talk) 12:49, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Bashir
Was Bashir ever seen in a command role, or it pure speculation that he was third officer? Medical officers are staff and are usually outside the direct chain of command. Can anyone find an instance (aside from "Hippocratic Oath", where it was just him and O'Brien) where he was in command of DS9 or "Defiant", even temporarily?
 * Whomever wrote that may be going purely by rank- I don't recall Bashir ever being in command(aside from Hippocratic Oath) --31dot 15:01, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I admit the evidence is sketchy. He's specified as senior to O'Brien in "The Storyteller" (although again that's just the two of them) and referred to as senior staff on a number of occasions. Possibly the strongest example is in "Tears of the Prophets", where it's implied he's in command of DS9 with Sisko, Kira and Worf off station and Jadzia fatally wounded. (He's the one who contacts the Defiant and O'Brien's reaction suggests it's as acting commander.) Skteosk 16:52, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * He was also seen leading a squadron during there practise in "Way of the Warrior" --General MGD 109 16:35, September 8, 2011 (UTC) 8th September 2011
 * And he was in charge of a detachment of crew in "The Siege". --Skteosk 11:22, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that Bashir was in command of DS9 in "Tears of the Prophets". To me, Miles seemed to be reacting that the chief medical officer would be sending a priority message from the station, comfortably behind enemy lines, during a major battle deep in Cardassian territory. He wasn't expecting it. Remember that Jadzia Dax was left in command of DS9 by Sisko when he left for Chin'toka. O'Brien reacted surprised because JADZIA as the acting CO would normally speak for the station. And since Bashir was in the midst of a medical emergency (a dying Jadzia), I don't think he cared too much about being in Ops to make sure the trains ran on time. In "Move Along Home" and "The Cause" junior officers were seen in command in the absence of Sisko, Kira, Worf and Jadzia and I'm sure that was the case in "Tears of the Prophets". Medical officers only taken command in unusual circumstances if there aren't any bridge or line officers to do so. And since it was technically a Bajoran station, I'm sure a Bajoran subortinate to Kira could also have taken command. But none of this suggests that Bashir is third officer. He was only seen once in explicit command over someone else--"Hippocratic Oath"--where he outranked O'Brien because O'Brien was a chief petty officer and Bashir a medical lieutenant. 74.69.11.229 15:31, December 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * As you say, O'Brien was expecting the acting CO to contact them. If Bashir was knee deep in a medical emergency (as he was) and someone else was acting CO, why didn't that person send the communication rather than it being Bashir's responsibility? In "Move Along Home", Bashir is also absent and the sequence of events in "For the Cause" seems a bit muddled, with no explanation for where Jadzia or Bashir have got to or why no-one seems to be looking for Kira after Eddington stuns her. Bashir is explicitily shown to be in command of a group of officers including a command track ensign in "The Siege", Sisko even chooses to leave him in command rather than sending the station's first officer to take over. It has been indicated in interviews that Bashir was considered a battlefield medic, episodes such as "Way of the Warrior" and "The Siege of AR-558" show him on the front line with the rest of the crew and he is frequently stationed on the bridge during battle, like in "The Changing Face of Evil" and "What You Leave Behind". Also, O'Brien commands the station in "Emissary" when Sisko, Kira, Dax and Bashir are absent so if Bashir's senior to him, as per "Hippocratic Oath", that would seem to place him pretty high in the station's command structure.Skteosk (talk) 00:41, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

I'm confused by one point you make. When did Sisko choose to leave Bashir in command "rather than the station's first officer"? In "The Siege"? Because if that was the episode, Kira and Dax were on a mission to get to the Bajoran capital using a sub-impulse raider stowed away on one of Bajor's moons. Without Kira or Dax and with O'Brien a non-com, Bashir was likely the ranking officer after Sisko as a lt. jg., even though medical officers seem to take precedence after lower-ranking bridge officers and even engineering officers. Since the story portrayed in "The Siege" was a crisis situation, protocol was likely waived. 74.69.11.229 13:13, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * At the time of "The Siege", Li Nalas is first officer of the station, Kira having been reassigned. Bashir is shown to be in charge of one group of crewmembers, with Li part of Sisko's group. Bashir notes his group are best positioned to ambush a group of Bajorans. O'Brien quietly mentions Bashir's lack of experience and suggests Sisko send Li to take over from him but Sisko chooses to leave Bashir in charge. Skteosk (talk) 01:26, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Paris
Was Paris third officer for the entire run of VGR? In season 2, he it was mentioned that he reported to Lieutenant Rollins, who had appeared in "Caretaker" as an ensign at Ops when Kim was imprisoned by the Ocampa. If he reported to Rollins, as was mentioned in the episode, it stands to reason that Rollins was among the senior staff (if off-screen). Also when Paris was demoted in "Thirty Days", did he remain third officer? Since at the end of the episode, Torres made a point (if joking) to order Paris to dinner, wouldn't she become third officer between "Thirty Days" and "Unimatrix Zero"? Or was Kim the third officer, since he commanded the night shift on the bridge and seemed on more than one occasion to even outrank Torres. 74.69.11.229 01:39, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Paris is shown in command of the ship in "Initiations" during season 2. It's never explicitily stated he reported to Rollins, although that does seem to be the implication. (One possible explanation: Rollins is Tuvok's deputy, since he filled in on tactical while Tuvok was undercover with the Maquis, and was reading the reports on his behalf.) There doesn't seem to be any real correlation between rank held and position in the command structure: On TNG, Crusher and Troi are stated to be senior to Data and Worf even though they seem to be second and third officer respectively. Given that Paris is promoted back to lieutenant jg while Kim remains an ensign, I'd say he was still next in the command structure. Skteosk (talk) 01:33, February 9, 2013 (UTC)