Talk:Tholian

Terminology
I notice the term tractor web is used in this article. I have not seen the episode ("IAM,D2"), is this correct terminology or should it still be Tholian web? --Gvsualan 21:57, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Material from
I have added a physical description based on what I remember from the episode. I believe it to be accurate, but encourage others (perhaps someone who has recorded the episode) to verify my work. While technically this is a description of mirror universe Tholians, up to this point, species in each universe have been morphologically identical. -- Balok 02:48, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * From what I seen, your article seems correct (Well written too, I fixed up a few things however). The Tholian was moving fast in the episode and the gas hampered sight so it wasn't easy to see. Nonetheless, I believe your article contains valid information. Enzo Aquarius 02:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * If anyone can look out for it, I'm 80% sure I counted 3 fingers on each hand. It's not really easy to tell from the pic, (but boy am i happy we have a pic!) so if anyone remembers? - AJHalliwell 14:11, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mirror Tholians and Prime Tholians the same?
After watching this episode, does it not seem like the Tholian's from the "real" universe and the Tholian's from the Mirror universe are the same race and not mirror's of each other? Point 1: Why would Tholians in Kirk's universe, help capture a starship for a mirror universe race? Point 2: The Tholians in both unverse are both extremely xenophobic, the mirror universe races are mirrors of the real races so the Tholians in this episode should be non-xenophobic?


 * Hmmm, a spin on the concept of a Trans-dimensional species. It's a neat idea, a non-canon hypothesis, but quite neat. Jaf 14:22, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)Jaf

I've removed the part of society and culture that indicates that Tholians annex territories. this was only mentioned in reference to mirror-Tholians, and is in contrast to T'pol's statement from Future Tense that Tholians rarely travel outside of their core system. Neonbabyblue 14:36, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There both xenophobic, arn't the mirror vulcans logical? Perhaps some things are universal to species – Alexlyoko13 01:03, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Xenophobes
How do we know that the Tholians are Xenophobe's? I've been through the TOS episode on a study mission for my site and found no mention that they are Xenophobes. They acted unfriendly, and protective of their space but nothing says they are Xenophobes. My site has my research here supernovawd.netfirms.com/worlds/Tholian/tholians.htm this is reference, I have not cleared it for being placed on this site. This of course is only the TOS points on whom and what the Tholians are. If there is a TNG or DS9 reference to the Tholians being Xenophobes I'd like to know.--TOSrules 23:10, Jan 29, 2005 (CET)
 * So doubtful, yet so demanding. We know they are xenophobes because it was said they were in their only other Trek appearance, . --Gvsualan 00:32, 30 Jan 2005 (CET)
 * Well that fits with the MA canon, but it will never meet with Supernova canon. That is becuase it's a pure TOS study, with rare TNG tag ons. --TOSrules 09:20, Jan 30, 2005 (CET)
 * That's too bad for them. --Gvsualan 21:57, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

crystalline
were the Tholian's called crystalline on screen, if so does any one have the episode/episodes? Signed, Tyrant
 * Based on the events of "In A Mirror, Darkly, Part I", I believe it is safe to conclude they are largely crystalline, but have at least some internal biochemical processes. -- Balok 02:49, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * He/she/it shattered a lot like a crystal! -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 02:51, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Moved from Nominations for featured articles

 * Tholian: Seems to have everything. Jaf 21:32, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support.--AJHalliwell 06:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. One thing I noticed is that it only had two pictures, which seems somewhat weak. I added 3 more to it, 2 pertaining the the History/Politics section, just to go with the "story" and one of Kasidy holding the Tholian silk. I think it would be nice to see something from "Future Tense" -- either fighting the Suliban or something else otherwise described in the article. I also added some chapters to the history to break it up some, since it clearly contained 3 or 4 completely unrelated sections. --Gvsualan 07:29, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support --User:Tobyk777 25 June 2005

The last time, I saw this article, it was featured. Is there an explanation or is it an edit error ? - Philoust123 20:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The template was removed by Deevolution on 5 June 2006, but I think it was by accident. He put a background note in its place. In addition, there is nothing in the archive about a succesful removal from featured status for this article. I am therefore returning the template. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  21:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Cardinal Directions in Space. ..
This line seems a bit dubious. ..

"claimed an area of Klingon territory south of Federation space"


 * Well, if you look at the territorial map used in the game from a real-world perspective as a player, the Tholians are located at the bottom of the map, below the Federation, hence they are to the south of them. You can see a picture of the map here. The Federation is that big blue area in the middle, the Tholians are the very small white cluster beneath them. Now from an in-universe perspective, you're right, NSEW directions are pretty much meaningless - Starfleet records would say they're rimward of the Federation, since the bottom edge of the map represents the galactic rim and the great barrier, while the top edge represents the limit of explored space in the coreward direction. I'm actually the one who wrote that bullet point in the apocrypha section though, so I can tell you that when I wrote it I was thinking from a player's perspective, and the games set in the Starfleet Universe promote that kind of thinking by using NSEW terminology themselves. Some of the races in Federation & Empire even have "Northern" and "Southern" fleets, which would obviously be a totally meaningless distinction in real space, but for a gravity-bound game player on Earth who's used to north being up and south being down, it helps us keep our forces straight. However, if people think it would be more consistent with the format of this wiki to change "south" to "rimward," I'm not going to object. It'll just look a bit funny to anyone who's used to thinking in SFB or F&E terms, that's all.--Zequist 06:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * We have that map here, I have added it as a thumbnail. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, makes sense to me now.


 * And one other thing - each hex in Fed and Empire is anarea of space 500 parsecs in diameter - designed to represent the thickness of the galactic disk this far out from the centre of the Galaxy.


 * So, one could refer to NSEW in that sense, and not have to worry about hexes being 'above' or 'below' the galactic plane. --Nerroth 02:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Tholians: Dead or Alive? ''"Be correct: we do not tolerate deceit!"
"A living tholian was..." I wanted to address this before making any changes myself because the alteration was deliberately made and it is baffling. The latest changes even go so far as to describe the characteristics of "a living tholian". Why?? Are the characteristics of a dead tholian different? Are we trying to imply that all tholians explode upon death regardless of the cause? What is the rational behind referring to Tholians in the past tense at all? Are they dead now? Has the race gone extinct? What the heck is going on? On Wikipedia Americans, whales, and daffodils are referred to in the present tense. Dodos, dinosaurs, and the Soviet Union are referred to in the past tense. Why should this practice of description be any different here? --Foravalon 00:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Everything in MA (ideally) is in past tense, as it is intended to be like an encyclopedia of the far future.--Tim Thomason 01:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

But that's not officially the stance of MA and in cases such as these it's inaccurate and misleading. By "the intention to be like an encyclopedia of the far future" I'm guessing you mean something like eons after the common eras of trek, supposedly after the death and finality of everything related to trek as we know it, but that is not the official stance either, that's almost by definition completely Outside of the Star Trek Universe, and even if that were the official stance, in cases such as these, there is still no validity to the implication of an end to these things as none has been shown. Species, planets, nebulas, civilizations, these are things of greater permanance for anything resembling our frame of reference, anything outside of that frame is conjecture and against not only the Canon of the ongoing Trek to date but also the aims of this project. --Foravalon 19:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Even given that it should be in the past tense, there is no reason to assume that a tholian corpse is automatically transfigure significantly upon death, although certain modes of death such as cold-induced shattering would cause this.


 * I gotta agree. A slew of changes were just made which makes it seem as if Tholians were an extinct species.  If its the MA policy, I'm not advocating a change...  but it is certainly confusing, and misleading...  and I can see no justification for that confusion. Hossrex 02:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Then take it up on the proper page. We aren't going back to the period of several months ago (before your time Hossrex) where this was being discussed on 20 talk pages across articles all over the place. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem is probably that people don't know where the proper place is. I don't have a clue. Hossrex 03:15, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Try looking at the policy I cited in the edit summary when I made the revert. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you ever wonder why people don't post things in the right places... remember back to this, and notice how many wasted posts have been made because your playing games, and acting like a big man instead of just posting a link.  :) Hossrex 03:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And you might want to stop and read Memory Alpha:No personal attacks before you edit MA any further. I'd hate to see you receive a block from editing. I put a link to the policy in the edit summary for the revert SPECIFICALLY to help new users. SPECIFICALLY. If you look at my talk page, you'll see it worked, too. I got THANKED for my help. If you want to continue this, take it up in the right place, not here. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:46, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right. You've successfully intimidated me into apologizing for accusing you of acting like a "big man".  I apologize. Hossrex 04:17, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Two hermaphroditic sexes?
I'm confused by the article, does it mean to imply that there are two types of sexual organs, each possessed by all tholians, or that there are two distinct sexes of tholian, each of which possesses both male and female organs. The second posssiblity could exist do to physical compatibility or some other thing, possibilly not analagous to familiar biology, Alternitively, if it is unclear in the source material, it should that.

Silk and Ships?
I feel obligated to ask for clarification.

If the Tholians did indeed naturally spin web it may go a ways toward explaining the design of their space craft.

What would the ability to spin silk have to do with the design of their spacecraft? ~ John Damen


 * I would guess that a species that produced silk (webbing) would mimic that design in their technology (Tholian web)? Not unlike the addition of arms to the international space station. Jaf 19:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)Jaf

Tense
Nice- a fun read. Quick question - why not change to present tense? the first line starts off with the Tholians "were".....they're still around, not extinct, right?
 * MA:POV. That's why. -- Sulfur 03:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The Tholian Conflict
I just watched and the reference to the attack on a Federation starbase was said to have taken place during "the Tholian conflict," which would seem to indicate that there was a larger political context beyond the single incident of the attack itself. Jaf 15:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)Jaf

Renowned Tholian punctuality
I always took Spock's statement as a smartass/sarcastic meaning. That is, they (the Federation) knows nothing of the Tholians, and same with Spock. he just knows that they say they'll be back in, whatever it was, "one hour and fifty-two minutes" and, lo and behold, they were. Anybody? Roygbiv666 20:38, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Spock? Sarcastic? --TribbleFurSuit 04:44, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Dead Sound Sample?
Just tried to listen to the "Sample of Tholian language," and it went to the .ogg page, but all it played was 3.2 seconds of silence. Does anyone else have this problem? Jbshryne 19:02, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still dead, so I'm removing it... ~ Jbshryne 06:18, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

First Contact contradiction?
If their crystaline wouldn't that make them silicon based? If so they have had contact with humans who considered silicon based lifeforms impossible until TOS Devil in the Dark, In fact given their actions in TOS The Tholian Web I could easily get behind the concept that first contact occured between those episodes.
 * Crystalline does not mean silicon based. -- sulfur 17:13, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Picture
If you look at the Gorn article, it uses the picture of Slar from the mirror universe. Why not do the same with the mirror universe Tholian here? - Mitchz95 20:47, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * It might have something to do with that image already being used in the article. - 21:06, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

I sort of meant we should move the picture. - Mitchz95 03:19, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Since we don't have another image that would work for the Physiology section, I would suggest you upload a new image from "In a Mirror, Darkly" that's similar to the current one at the top of the article if you want an "updated" version. - 03:30, September 5, 2011 (UTC)