Talk:Starfleet uniform (alternate reality 2250s)

2260s?
The film took place from approx. 2233 to 2258, this title doesnt even fit, nor should the qualifier be capitalized. --Alan 16:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, my mistake. I was thrown off by the fact that Chekov was stated to be 17. -FC 16:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

TMP Uniforms
Did anyone else think that Pike's Admiral uniform was the same as Kirk's Admiral Uniform from the Motion Picture? --68.42.53.5 23:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have a picture of Pike in his admiral uniform? – Furyofaseraph 16:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The uniform Admiral Pike worn while in the wheel chair was very similar too but exactly like Kirk's Admiral uniform in Star Trek the Motion Picture. --Frank Columbo 23:36, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

"Provisional uniforms were completely black."
Is this true? I just assumed that the completely black tops were the undershirts of the uniforms, so when we see Kirk in a 'black uniform' he's really just wearing his regular uniform minus the gold overshirt. --Jayunderscorezero 20:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Gutting half the article
I apologize that a recent revert probably cut out some good material, but it appears that half the article was gutted and cut. All the info about the uniforms changing because of a timeline shift was simply blanked and the entire background section was gutted down to one sentence. The changes cut some major information and wren not discussed. I'll try to put back in some of the pictures, but that's why I did it. -FC 02:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and put back in all the pictures so it now merges the original info and the new pictures. The "gutting edit" can be found here. As stated, my main problem with that was wiping out all of the introduction and background material about the timeline change and replacing it with "Starfleet resigned the uniforms". I also don't know what an OOU comment is. Anyway, I ask in the spirit of politeness that if want to cut away half the article next time lets discuss it first. -FC 02:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that "OOU" stands for "out of universe", i.e. it's a complaint brought up when something seems to mix an in-universe perspective with a real world perspective. That might still be an issue with some of the opening spiel. --Jayunderscorezero 03:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My (original) intention was to re-write the article to match up with the other uniform pages with separate sections and complete information. I also wanted to remove, what I perceive as "out-of-universe" comments (such as the word "seemingly" and comparing separate reality uniforms together in the main section). I also didn't like the overt speculation in the background section, but hoped to cancel out any issues by constructively editing the article into something better (granted, I couldn't think of a good, lengthy in-universe introduction).--Tim Thomason 07:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Your points abut the background section are well founded. There is a source for the info about using the Original series uniforms instead of the pilot versions, mainly an interview with the film producers. I'll add that into the article as soon as I can find time. The opening section about the timelines change there doesnt seem to be anything wrong with but that could be changed if there are specific issues. -FC 11:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I checked some notes and there seems to be an article written by something called "TrekBBS" which talks about why the pilot uniforms weren'toin the new movie. I'll try to track down more sources about this so that the BGT section can improve. -FC 13:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Medical assignment patch?
I've brought in info about rank insignia and assignment patches from the TOS uniform page. While the command, sciences and operations patches can all be clearly seen in pics from the film elsewhere on the site, I can't find anything that confirms that the medical patch was being used. Can anyone provide some support for or against that? – Twilder 06:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Judging from the Bones picture alone, it would seem that medical officers also got the sciences patch. Also, these patches do seem subtly different from their TOS equivalents... --Jayunderscorezero 06:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The rank info is inherently incorrect, and should be removed. The "braids" were more like stripes and there weren't any "hyphenated" braids but thinner stripes.--Tim Thomason 07:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that entire section had to be removed. The ranks and division patches are very much not the same as the original series.  The rank insignia in particular as the insignia now consists of solid silver stripes with no hashmarks.  All of the other division emblems have also undergone significant changes. -FC 11:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We should at least keep information about the other three assignment patches, however, as all three are clearly visible. It seems only the medical one has gone missing. (unsigned)
 * The operations and sciences image is substantionally different, there is no black border anymore, and the the patch is a very different color (silver instead of gold). They're just as different as the ranks and need a new version uploaded to match what was onscreen.--Tim Thomason 05:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Upon further inspection, I see what you mean. I've been provided with some close ups of the assignment patches (thanks Jorg!) and I'll try to get a more accurate image up in a day or two. While the general designs are the same, there are noticeable changes, beyond just the colorings.Twilder 05:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aww nuts, I finally get time to finish doing this and someone's beaten me to the punch. Sadly, I must concede that he/she did a better job (although mine was pretty darn good, if I do say so myself), and tip my hat. Kudos! Twilder 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I've only one rewatch on DVD under my belt but the question of the lack of a Medical patch does rear its head given the BestBuy pinset. I would assume onscreen evidence would be required, but it may be something to look for. – 75.132.208.210 09:45, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Admiral picture gone
There was a pretty neat picture of an Admiral in the article and now its gone. Did it get cut somehow? I can't even find it in the edit history. -FC 14:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "Admiral's uniform: my image was to show the correct name - not to be used" - from the edit summary. It was a copyvio. &mdash; Morder 15:27, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Officers Dress Uniform
Isn't there the "normal officers" dress Uniform missing as we see it with Captain Pike in the bar scene or with all non-cadet personnel during the court martial, when the cadets are put on their ships or when Kirk is promotioned and gets his Medal for his KMT Approach?

don't know if it is rather brownish-dark or silvery as stated with Admirals Dress but it's definite not under the uniforms talked about in the article yet... or maybe it's just another expeditionary jacket above the duty uniform trousers and undershirt?

and if i remember the other uniform articles correctly they'd mention stuff like Kirks survival jacket from Delta Vega as additional gear allowed to wear on duty, where as Scottys somehow more civil looking suit might well have been civil clothes the winter jacket Kirk wears is "official"  --81.210.252.151 20:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)




 * The uniform Pike is wearing at the shipyard seems to be the black "Barracks officer" uniform, since it was black when Kirk got on the shuttle, as for the normal dress uniform, it seems to be the red one, since at the end of the movie the Enterprise bridge staff can be seen wearing it as well, and only two of them were cadets before the Battle of Vulcan, that we know of. - Archduk3:talk 06:12, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Admiral Insignia
The admiral insignia listed might not be the only admiral. Perhaps the five ranks of admiral (Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, Fleet Admiral) had different insignia. Pike might have been a Vice Admiral. It be noted, at least, that this was one rank of admiral.--Nickthegeek 22:42, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Kelvin
Weren't the Kelvin uniforms different? There doesn't seem to be an article for them but the definitely was a change, - had something of the early TNG style about them.82.10.185.117 20:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That can be found here. -FC 21:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Admiral's uniform
Admirals wore a silver tunic without any division colors. Given that the only people you see wearing it are the board at Starfleet Academy (not all of whom are admirals), and frankly it looks more like an academic robe than a military uniform, I think this is something worn at the Academy, not the "regular" uniform.--Ten-pint 22:23, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree, just like the black uniform Spock was wearing at the Kobayashi Maru scenario test, it seems to be Academy dress only. - Archduk3:talk 22:51, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Suggested reorganization
User:Alientraveller/Sandbox. What do you think? I tried to make the article less long but cutting down the amount of pictures, and putting together the tiny paragraphs. – Alientraveller 12:54, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * The POV needs to be tweaked. The article shouldn't mention the "prime reality" outside of a bg note. - Archduk3:  talk  13:10, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

"Prime" Female Uni
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd2301.jpg Hopefully, someone more skilled in computer photo-manipulation than I am could upload a shot of the sleeved miniskirt uniform variant.--Ten-pint 03:25, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. - Archduk3:  talk  13:08, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Danke schon.--Ten-pint 16:41, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Similarity to "Cage" excursion jackets
The uniform visible in the background of this image is very similar to the excursion jacket (plus uniform hat, two sections below the jacket) as shown in. If it can be confirmed that this has been a deliberate decision (which I guess is the case), it would make a nice addition to the article. -- Cid Highwind 14:35, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Barracks officer
Hi, can someone explain me "Baracks Officer". I'm German and I don't know the meaning of "Barracks officer". Thank you--Soundtrek 12:55, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

please help me, I need some information.--[ Soundtrek ] ∨ [ Kommentare ] 10:20, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hallo. "barracks" heisst "Kaserne", gemeint ist also wahrscheinlich der Kasernenoffizier. -- Cid Highwind 13:26, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * Vielen Dank, Thank you very much--[ Soundtrek ] &or; [ Kommentare ] 13:08, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Cap Logo
While the caps are never shown in detail in the film, the "Gag Reel" on the DVD includes a shot of three extras in these uniforms, and the UFP emblem is clearly visible.

I based that statement on this - http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Tansy_Alexander.jpg - were I to add this photo to the article, should it be under "Academic Uniforms", because that's what it's a part of, or "Background", because it's not taken from the film itself?--Ten-pint 05:34, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Female shirt-and-trousers variant
Should images of the female shirt-and-trousers uniform be added, or would they be superfluous considering that the design is basically the same as the male standard uniform? Tinwe (hailing frequency) 07:01, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

UNDERWEAR
How do we know that the underwear Carol marcus wearing is starfleet issued? Remember in Star trek 2009 we see Uhura, Gaila and kirk in their underwear, and their underwear was average buy at clothes underwear. My point how do we know if Carol marcus underwear is really starfleet issued and not just simple blue bra and panties that carol decided to wear that day. (142.196.83.76 05:12, May 26, 2013 (UTC))
 * I'm dubious myself as well, although Carol's underwear looked more futuristic than Kirk, Uhura and Gaila's underwear. I'd remove it and place the image in Carol's article where the scene is discussed. --Alientraveller (talk) 20:38, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to think that the underwear that Carol Marcus or Uhura was wearing isn't Starfleet issue, since it was clearly worn with a uniform and we know Starfleet had issued underwear a century earlier. As for Kirk and Gaila, it's not really clear what they were wearing uniform before they got to her room, so their underwear could be anything. - 23:21, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Given there's no Starfleet insignia on those items of clothing, like everything else in this era, saying they're Starfleet issued could be considered speculation. I added the polar coat to the article after noticing the symbol in a photo in The Art of the Film. We can always note it in the background given how distinctive Carol's undies looked. --Alientraveller (talk) 23:15, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * No "under" anything, in any era, has been marked, so why would this be any different? You could remove all the pants using the same reasoning, and I think removed pants may have something to do with the apparent rush to remove this. - 19:02, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * That made me guffaw: I hope I'm not appearing to be prude. Still, I'm going to leave it for now to other interested parties who may agree it's not necessarily regulation clothing. --Alientraveller (talk) 21:18, May 31, 2013 (UTC)