Talk:Valdore type

Ship history
See my comments at D'deridex class. Does the Valdore class need to be a new or recent ship design? Just because we never saw it doesn't mean it didn't exist prior to Nemesis... to believe that the Romulans only had one ship type for fifteen years is hard to believe. The Valdore seems older to me anyway... lots in common with the Bird of Prey and pre-TNG era vessels (unfortunately enough).


 * I've changed the article text to reflect this. No speculation on our part as researchers is called for. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 07:05, 24 Aug 2004 (CEST)

Destroyed/Disabled
I just watched Nemesis, and I didn't see either of the Romulan Warbirds being destroyed. The first had its wing blown off, and the other (the Valdore) was "dead in the water". No one ever says whether or not the first one was destroyed. There is no indication either way. All we can do is speculate.

Ship weaponry and technology
It is said that these ships were a significant and super-top-of-the-line sucessor to the D'Deridex class. New weapons systems were also apparently part of the design, and the producers/director/screenwriters (?) wanted a Romulan craft designed to keep the Romulans matched, cold war style, to Federation technology.

So much about these ships and the Reman-built (hijacked?) ship technologies is hinted at and eluded towards, but we really know so little about it. Plus, we didn't get to see any of these ships' supposed capacity, as they were both quickly tooled by Deus Ex Plotline in Nemesis.

Can we get a data dump onto this page of all the information we have on this ship class, then work through the process of determining viability? --


 * Data dump? There is really no additional canon information available other than what is already presented. --Alan del Beccio 04:11, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Interior
As far as I could tell, Valdore bridge was simply a redress of USS Enterprise bridge.

Valdore iPIX
I managed to fetch an iPIX 360° animation/image of Valdore's bridge from archive.org, upon which I'm planning to make further submissions and bridge layout descriptions and speculations. I think that some of that speculation might first make it here or there should be a separate speculation/extrapolation section for the ship type, as little is known about it. Wikipedia also has information on Valdore, which could be brought into here. 82.131.28.45 13:59, 4 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Removed from article
The following paragraphs were removed from the article. They strike me as being largely speculative in nature, and personal opinion/comparison (particularly in the use of language). If any of the material can be adapted and reinserted into the article, please do so -- Michael Warren | Talk 17:51, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)

The Valdore type's bridge layout is sleeker, and less clutter (unlike the D'Deridex IRW Khazara), still mostly adhering to aztec design conventions seen in regular-military vessels. (The interior of a Tal Shiar ship bridge is more sophisticated.)''

What appears to be the main screen at first sight, is probably just a regular window, essentially bearing its dimensions; having such a small viewport in a new ship is inconvenient &#8212; which leads to suggest that the actual "main screen" device, once in use, creates either a 2D or a 3D holographic projection of outside action. Canon hasn't shown this yet, so it is likely that the projector is switched off when not in active use /for energy conservation, as this principle pretty much applies everywhere.

A relatively new design convention on a Romulan ship bridge is having larger auxiliary consoles built into surrounding walls &#8212; While on most a D'Deridex bridge, there are none or they are very small. Of course, Valdore-type starships are newer, way more complex (that includes the exterior layout) and have apparently been built for further flexibility and more diverse functions. It's also possible that the Romulans are playing catch-up with the Federation.


 * Observations gathered from production photos and an iPIX animation from the now-defunct official Nemesis ''site. Valdore-type is compared with previously seen D'deridex-class vessels.


 * To Ocampa Kid, please cease from adding this information. A large amount of it is speculative. We do not know much of the Valdore type, so we don't need a huge amount of information. Though your information is quite interesting, it has already been stated that it doesn't belong here ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 00:50, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Re: Damage
It's been a while since I've seen the film, but I recall that at the end of the Nemesis battle, Donatra dispatched aid to the Enterprise. This makes the line that her "ship suffered significant damage in the battle," seem a little suspect, as a significantly damaged ship probably would not have been able to render aid to anyone (including, for that matter, themselves). I would recommend an edit to something along the lines of "fairly significant damage in the battle (though was able to render assistance...)"; as I said, however, I haven't watched the movie in a while, so I'm reluctant to make such arbitrary changes.
 * It was said that she was "sending shuttles" with medical personnel -- a ship could theoretically be "dead in the water" and still able to launch small craft (actually, if i was on a 'dead in the water' ship, i'd prefer to be on the first boat out). I don't really find anything suspect about it -- as it would have been a really bad idea to launch shuttles at any point before Scimitar's destruction, even though we know they could have. -- Captain M.K. Barteltalk 23:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Images removed
These two images (plus another one that's suggested for deletion and probably a copyright violation) were placed in the middle of the page, at a much too high resolution. Someone who is an expert here please check: Do we need these images at all, and if so, where? -- Cid Highwind 23:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Commander of the second ship
I am removing the reference to Suran being commander of the second ship. We never see who is the commander. We do know that he supported doing something to stop the Scimitar, but there is no evidence that I know of that he was actually ON one of the ships. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  22:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Official class designation
To my knowledge, there is never any official class designation for these ships. They are obviously of a new design, but the only reference I've seen is that one of the ships is named the Valdore. Can someone verify, through official canon sources, that the class of the ship is indeed the Valdore? If not, then I highly suggest that the article is rewritten to ensure that it is clear that the offical naming is unknown and that there are several non-official sources that attribute the class to be named something else, such as Norrexan and others. --67.151.118.186 18:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed, there is no canon Valdore class, that is why this article is called "Valdore type". Whenever we want to create an article for an unnamed starship class, we call it "XXX type", to differentiate from the canon, named starship classes. As you mentioned, several different non-canon, conjectural class names for the Valdore type have appeared after Nemesis (Norexan, Mogai), they are listed at the bottom of the page. --Jörg 18:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, right, slight brainfart on my part. I noticed the same issue on the Valdore ship article and put a note there in the discussion page.

Using myself as an example, I did not make the distinction between type and class so it may be prudent to make it a bit more clear at the top of the article. Re-reading, I realize it says it is a preliminary designation, but it's a very subtle description and not obvious to a typical user who does not already know the distinction.--67.151.118.186 18:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with the acronym "NPOV" and a search didn't do any good. Anyway, the first use of the name "Norexan" was in the Star Trek Customizable Card Game from Decipher. It was one of several ship designations that they invented as they needed them. --Pearse 00:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with OuroborosCobra's revert either. Not only did the previous edit now specify the otherwise unmentioned "at least one...product", it also pointed out that it was defunct, which is true, and, likewise is the fact that it "has not yet been verified in canon"..yet. --Alan del Beccio 00:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I was not aware that the CCG was considered "defunt" (just curious, who decides that and where is it said?). As I had no information on that, it struck me as not neutral POV. The rest of the edit seemed just to be re-wording what was already there, not changing content. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:21, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * By defunct I meant that it had been cancelled and was no longer in production, although after taking a look at the publisher's website it seems they're continuing with it after all. Regardless, citing the CCG as the origination of the name [|"Norexan"] is neutral and fitting since the source of the "Mogai" name is referenced in that section as well.--Pearse 19:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Based on the discussion here, I have done a partial revert of myself. I put everything back except the stuff about being defunct, since it seems that might not be the case anyways. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Comparison Image Question
There is an image showing a scimatic of the three starships from Star Trek Nemesis, The Enterprise, The Valdore, and The Scimitar. It was released by Paramount Pictures in the Star Trek Communicator Magazine. Since it was released in such reputable sources it is clearly cannon. The image clearly shows the Valdore and the Scimitar are much larger than the Enterprise. I do not understand why it cannot be included in this article.User: Preator 13:22 28 January, 2007
 * For one very good reason, it is not canon. See the and  policies. You will note that the Star Trek Communicator Magazine is not on the list. In addition, taking images from a printed publication and not using them in review of said publication means they no longer fall under "fair use", and therefore constitute copyright violations. --OuroborosCobra talk  19:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The Image was first seen in the Star Trek Communicator. Latter released officially by paramount on websites, such as yahoo movies, to advertise the movie. Therefore it is an official release. As for Star Trek Communicator, I can understand certain things being concidered not cannon, but where the Star Trek Communicator was directly released by Paramount pictures its rather rediculous that this website won't concider it cannon. I did not violate any copyright when I found this picture. This website used to be more open to new information but recently they've become very judgemental and not open to individual help with this website.


 * Alas, that's not what we accept as canon here. On Memory Alpha, canon is anything that is seen or heard on-screen in official Star Trek productions (i.e., the series and the films). See the for more on that. Additionally, this image was previously voted for deletion a while back as it does, indeed, constitute a copyright infringement as it does not fall under the parameters of "fair use". As it has been voted for deletion, subsequent uploads of that image automatically qualify for an immediate deletion. And lastly, yes, we have become more strict in what we allow here. In the past, we included information from canon and non-canon sources (scripts, the tech manuals, deleted scenes, etc.) Because that when against out policy of only including canon information, we have done away with some of those non-canon pages or have turned them into production-pov pages. It's all explained there in the canon policy. --From Andoria with Love 06:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Ship dimensions
Where are the dimensions (length in the sidebar, wingspan in the text) from? I don't remember any mention in Nemesis and they are not attributed to a source either.Canonball 16:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)