Talk:Fred Freiberger

Decline
I find it hard to believe that Freiberger wasn't responsible for the decline of 3 shows...
 * How is this even relevant to this article? – Morder 23:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Interesting list, but what about Trek?
This page is mainly a list of his other works, with virtually nothing about his involvement with or influence on Trek. I was hoping to learn about his affect on the final season of TOS, but there's nothing here. Can anyone add some relevant info?

01:39, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Added "pna-incomplete" tag
See above for one: I thought the consensus was that the third season of TOS was markedly different, though I actually haven't seen many TOS episodes, so I have no clue. I'd like to know what role Mr. Freiberger played in the third season after Gene was "kicked upstairs" (and eventually left). Was it for good or ill? Was he a friend of Roddenberry or a lackey of NBC? I know these are kind of strange, vague, questions, but I'd like to know whether he made the (usually derided) third season worse, or kept it from being worse. This info isn't on the TOS season three article either, but even if it was, shouldn't the relevant portions be here as well? Some quotes from that article:


 * Behind the scenes changes resulted in the season being poorly received by many fans and cast members.
 * Some production staff members were disappointed with season three.
 * Ira Steven Behr once said that both he and his sister were disappointed "with the third season".
 * In a 2006 interview, Leonard Nimoy called it "very weak in general, but it was especially not good for Spock."

None of it says what role the producer himself had to do with any of this, though the article does mention problems with a few production staff, and in particular, the writing staff (viz., story consultant Arthur Singer). Does anyone know what was said about Mr. Freiberger?

Also, there are no citations or sources for the information – not even for his alleged internment as a POW in World War II. Is it all derived from the (not always reliable) IMDb? From Wikipedia? A background/behind-the-scenes book (which, sad for me, I have none)? The only link is to the IMDb. I would think at least one of the many books about the production of TOS mentioned him. But maybe none did. If so, then I guess we can take down the pna tag and just list his movie credits from the IMDb.

13:59, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I found (from Wikipedia) that Nichols and Shatner explicitly referenced Freiberger, with both asserting he didn't deserve blame for the drop in quality in the third season. It's still lacking much: eg, I don't know where the WWII reference came from, so I added an in-cite tag to it.

14:23, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * For what's it worth - in Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, Herbert F. Solow and Bob Justman pretty much 'exonerate' Freiberger as well. They rather blame Roddenberry for practically abandoning the series. A few choice quotes:


 * "[Gene] Roddenberry moved away from the Star Trek office building and into a small single room at the other end of the lot, turning his back on the series although he continued to draw his Executive Producer salary." (p. 395)


 * They quote Freiberger as stating it was the most unpleasant experience of his life. "My ordeal in a German prison camp only lasted two years. My travail with Star Trek has spanned twenty-five years and still counting." (P. 395)


 * "It wasn't too difficult to understand Freddie's pain. Not only was he thrown into a nest of feuding actors at a recalcitrant studio; but when the show's captain, Roddenberry himself, deserted ship and turned over his command, Freiberger was suddenly alone at the top." (p. 396)


 * "To this day, Freiberger continues to fend off the negative comments advanced by Roddenberry, Nimoy, and other series regulars relative to Fred's creative guidance of Star Trek's final year." (p.398)


 * – Cleanse ( talk 00:46, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Cleanse,

Great!

Thanks for the WWII reference. Do you think we/I/you/someone should add that (very helpful) sourced info/quotes you supplied? Hmmm. Oh welll. I'll "be bold", add it myself (borrowing from your info), and remove the pna tag.

16:37, December 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've got some more info if you're interested (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages pp. 65-67), but after a certain point the article becomes less about Freiberger and more about everyone's opinion of him (and the third season in general). I think how it is covers the major points fairly well. Good work.– Cleanse ( talk 01:27, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Cleanse,

Thanks. I agree with you about including no further information about other people commenting on him. I think the article (thanks to you and the resources you provided, as well as a little help from WP's references) now adequately explains the relationship between him and the third season of TOS. (Not that I'm saying the article is "complete/finished", of course!) I think the process went well and is a terrific example of MA at work: I went to look up Mr. Freiberger, knowing nothing about him or his role in Trek. Now I've learned what I had sought and others will be able to as well.

I'd almost be inclined to nominate for Featured Article status, if only because of the process of filling the article out. I do think it likely needs cleanup/copyediting (eg, I'm not sure I correctly formatted the inline citations/external links). Furthermore, the section about his other TV/film work, which I didn't touch, could probably be better. (eg, there are no citations, and I don't quite understand the organization of it. Is it chronological?) I did take advantage of the info contain therein to update the article on one of his colleagues (viz., Harvey Hart); his article contained no mention of his work with Mr. Freiberger on The Wild Wild West.

What do you think? Perhaps a Peer Review? I'll leave a brief note on your talk page about this.

15:58, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

External linking/citations
After reviewing Memory Alpha: External links, I came to believe my placement of the inline citations I'd put in the article, which were external links, did not belong inline. I moved them down to the "External links" section and gave a description for each one. Was this correct? Should have I left them inline? Do we employ a footnote-like tool as Wikipedia does with ? (or whatever the MediaWiki markup is for that – I don't edit WP often and don't know the markup for linking footnotes to their references.)

Another question (that I could probably track down but haven't found it in my cursory search): one of the links, which is also on the TOS Season 3 page, ends up redirecting to the home of the new official Trek Web site. I found the original using the "Wayback Machine" (http://web.archive.org) and fixed the linked. I thought there was a template for linking to that site, but I haven't been able to find it. Is there one? And if there is, should we use it in this article for the link to http://web.archive.org/web/20070817202406/http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/community/chat/archive/transcript/1366.html (which replaces the non-functional http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/community/chat/archive/transcript/1366.html link)? – Note: I intentionally spelled out the entire link here so those viewing this don't have to look at the link location when in it's this form:.

I'll fix the link on the TOS Season 3 page but not touch anything else there, unless I get an answer here instructing me to.

Thanks.

19:03, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * External links should be inline for references. That's how we do it here.
 * Use brokenlink for WBM links rather than a direct link there. -- sulfur 20:43, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the info and for fixing it! (I also left a note on your talk page.) :)

21:02, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Why no photo? http://www.google.com/search?q=fred%20freiberger&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi