User talk:Eipy

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From Krios Prime - logical inferences
In short, those things in the Qo'nos article are different: apocrypha, background, realworld, speculation, and hypotheses. Some of it is total cruft which should be cleaned right out. The particular thing about Krios's takeover sometime during a specific 200-year period is different, because unequivocal facts that directly lead to the conclusion are canon, therefore the conclusion is canon too. I don't know, maybe someone will say they think it should be in italics, treated as background, because it's a conclusion and not an explicit onscreen statement, but I doubt it. We'd have to change all kinds of stuff if our intolerance for "conclusions" were so broad that we couldn't say (for example) that "Veridium oxide is a naturally occurring compound, created from base materials veridium and oxygen", since nobody ever said so, or (another example) that Seven of Nine "was assimilated by the Borg in 2356 at age six", because her canon age was pieced together from other canon clues. I grant you, that last one has had disagreements (a case for her being 2 years older was made), but nobody ever advocated treating Seven's age like background. If you look again at the Qo'nos article, I think you can see that every italicized bit falls into one of the above categories, not hard canon. The lengthy one about how "Warp 4.5 equates to approximately 30,000,000 kilometers per second (100 times the speed of light), and Archer also mentions that the Enterprise is traveling at this speed. If the Enterprise sustained warp 4.5 for the duration of the four days, Qo'noS should only be about one light year from Earth" is actually indefensible, because MA holds that warp factors/speeds/distanced aren't consistently calculable because the canon around warp factors/speeds/distances is so incoherent. That note (I am guessing) has probably been in there since before we got more on top of both defining and enforcing the policies - in the case of that "Qo'nos distance at warp" item, original research is the relevant one. Regarding that "'logical inferences' are not valid resources", OK, that's not what the link says. If a fact logically follows from something explicit in a valid resource, then that fact is also valid, with the resource being the evidence. If Mars canonically has 2 moons, then logically Mars does not have 3 moons or 0 moons, and if it's necessary to say something like that anywhere, then we cite it by citing where canon says there are 2. Cheers, --TribbleFurSuit 21:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Awesome! This is perfect, it should make proving my point much easier. Further, what unequivocal facts lead to this conclusion?  Please cite them and your indisputable logic.  I don't see it.  -Eipy 02:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * BTB, I don't want you to think that I ignored the rest of your statements. I understand that you can't deny unequivocal facts that lead to conclusions.  Nevertheless, when there is conflict over what those facts could mean shouldn't the standard for inclusion as a factual statement be higher?  If we were all to agree, "Yes, this makes perfect sense based on the facts available," then I'd see it as valid, but when parties disagree, I think you should demand the direct evidence and allow for a debate on whether it is truly the only explanation.  If you had a canon statement that supported this statement, I'd gladly accept it but simply because you believe the facts lead to only one conclusion doesn't seem to make in canon.  There could be other conclusions inferred and that is the basis of my point.  It's pure speculation with a fancy name.  If we assume this to be a single planet then Krios may have willingly joined the Klingon Empire, perhaps they abandoned the planet, perhaps they made a pact with the Klingons, perhaps an uneasy treaty to share the planet?  All of these are logical possible conclusions to draw from the fact that the Klingons are on the planet.  The statement is pure speculation until direct evidence is presented to prove it. - Eipy 02:53, 6 December 2008 (UTC)