Talk:Hybrid

Trip's child
Does Trip and the Xyrillian's child count as a hybrid? I was under the impression that the child was a sole genetic heir of the mother and had none of Trip's genetic material. So it was some kind of asexual reproduction using Trip as a nonconsensual host. Surely, it wouldn't be a genetic hybrid. It's been a while since I saw the episode and was wondering if there was some clarification on this subject. Tim Thomason 25 May 2005, 01:47 (CST)


 * Your memory's correct. While it's true that Trip and Ah'len's daughter wasn't a genetic hybrid, she was the result of inter-species reproduction. And since the title of this article is indeed "reproduction", not "hybridization", host-only pregnancies definitely qualify for this list imo. Randee15 09:23, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Reversion (12/01/2005)
Although the fetus's DNA was all-Xyrillian, human DNA was still compatible with Xyrillian DNA allowing for interspecific pregnancy. --From Andoria with Love 05:48, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Still, the fetus wasn't a hybrid, as the header indicates. The article is misleading as it stands. --9er 06:06, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I have to agree that Human/Xyrillian incident should not qualify as interspecific reproduction. It's a form of symbiosis. Human DNA was compatible enough for the fetus to live off Tripp - he did not contribute to it's genes. It's parasitism actually since the host is impaired by the fetus and does not gain anything from it's presence. We would not consider Human/Roundworms as an example of interspecific pregnancy, so I don't think we should include the Xyrillians. --GreatBear 01:04, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * The problem that resulted from this might be better addressed at something like Interspecific sex. Please see below. Jaf 06:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)Jaf


 * Actually, interspecific sex would be a completely different subject, I think. It would deal more with the rituals, customs, and practices involved in doing "the deed."  Please pardon the expression.  This is the article focused on the reproductive side of things. --Icesyckel 16:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, I tend to disagree with the reasoning here on the Xyrillian - no offense to anyone. Remember that this page is entitled "interspecific reproduction."  If a species reproduces with another, then it qualifies in the broadest sense.  That members of some species use their partner only as a host, and not for genetic material, does nothing to alter the fact that it took the 2 of them to reproduce.  The Xyrillian had a "sex-like" experience with Trip that was required before she could reproduce.  She could not have reproduced "asexually," which is what it really comes down to here.  If the Xyrillian's reproduction was asexual, then by definition it doesn't involve another, whether of the same species as her or not.  Either Trip was vital, or he was not.  If he was not vital, then she reproduced asexually, but if he provided a vital function (the act), then the reproduction was mutual.  In my limited opinion (neither a doctor nor scientist here), they reproduced sexually, and because they are not of the same species, that reproduction qualifies for this page.  --Icesyckel 16:16, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Andorians
Is Andorian/Aenar really interSPECIES reproduction? The Aenar seem to just be a group of Andorians with common recessive traits (pale skin, blindness, and telepathy).Capt. Christopher Donovan 07:36, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree - it's more like interracial reproduction.--Icesyckel 03:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the information. – Cleanse 09:20, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The bit to which is being referred that was removed should have been added here when you removed it:
 * * Andorian/Aenar (Talla) 
 * That's the line that was removed. -- Sulfur 16:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the line I was removing was rather clear from context. – Cleanse 22:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The gist of the line... yes. Obvious.  The specifics, no.  Not obvious. If it were obvious, I wouldn't have posted it here. -- Sulfur 02:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Come on guys - it's a good thing having the line posted here right? No need to be negative/rude.  It's here now, and we're all on the same page.  --Icesyckel 02:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Tuvix
Surely Tuvix would count as an example of a Talaxian/Vulcan hybrid? Any thoughts? Igotbit 16:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This page is no longer on hybrids, it is now on interspecies reproduction; as such Tuvix doesnt really count. He wasn't "born" in a traditional sense, and I dont think he counts fully, but maybe he could get some kind of italic note.  Also, please register with MA (topright corner of the screen).  Its free, takes about 6 seconds, and we dont ask for any info, not even an e-mail if u dont want to give it.  Also please leave four ~ symbols to sign your name. Jaz 05:08, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help there Jaz.

OK, so Tuvix is not an example of interspecies reproduction, but I agree that he deserves a mention and I think that while he isn't evidence Vulcans and Talaxians mating, he is an indication that they would probably be 'compatible' Igotbit 16:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Angel One
I just watched the TNG episode 'Angel One' and it occurred to me that Ramsay's men settled, took wives and had children with the natives. Clearly this is a problematic issue since I don't think it is stated that all of Ramsay's men were human, nor is a specific species given for the inhabitants of Angel One and they look human enough but maybe this is worthy of a footnote. Igotbit 17:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Yedrin Dax - Human/Trill Hybrid?
It is my understanding that he was the offspring of Dax and Worf... Wouldn't that make him a Klingon/Trill hybrid? Am I missing something?


 * IIRC, Dr. Bashir said that reproduction between a Klingon and a Trill would require advanced medical procedures. After the Defiant crashed on the planet, they probably didn't have to much to work with, not that the Defiant had much to begin with in the first place. Furthermore, to propigate the colony, Worf and Jadzia could have had biological children with other people, but raised them as their own, hence Yedrin thinking of Worf as one of his family, as well as the Sons of Mogh, whether Klingon or human, naming themselves as the Sons of Mogh in honor of Worf. Also, Yedrin doesn't have the Klingon ridges. We've seen what a third generation hybrid with only one full Klingon ancestor looks like in Miral Paris. Her maternal grandmother (Miral) was full Klingon, and all her other ancestors (John Torres, B'Elanna Torres, Admiral and Mrs. Paris, and Tom Paris) are all human. She still has the ridges as well a few of the Klingon redundant organs. Now, the colony on Gaia was there for 200 years before the Defiant caught up with them again, if you understand me. This means there could be four or more generations, depending on how early or late the couples have children. Hopefully, this helps a little. Sorry for all the long sentences. Willie 09:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Respectfully Willie, I disagree. We know the doctor had medical equipment - just not that specific equipment sufficient to treat Kira (who I believe required neurosurgery).  It may be that trills and klingons have problems mating because trills have aggressively dominant DNA. For all we know, if they had been able to conceive, Worf and Jadzia's child would have looked like a trill.  --Icesyckel 03:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Respectfully Icesyckel, I personally agree more with Willie than with you. Both of you are speculating, but Willie's speculation have more support in canon. Your speculation are just simply speculation without any real canon support. Willie's thoughts are more plausible. ( I don't mean to be rude towards you). -- Rom Ulan Hail 00:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No offense taken Rom Ulan - you were very respectful. I agree with you, actually, that we are all speculating.  Willie does make excellent points from canon, and they may even be more plausible than mine.  I wasn't trying to prove Yedrin was part Klingon, though.  I was just trying to make the case that it was possible, and, my ultimate goal is to prove that none of us can do more than speculate on Yedrin's heritage.


 * I agree with the points Willie raised from canon about the difficulty for Trills/Klingons to mate and that Klingon forehead ridges tend to be dominant. However, we have no evidence, canon or otherwise, to prove that the ridges would be dominant in Trills or that Dr. Bashir was unable to help Worf and Jadzia conceive.  In fact, as Willie pointed out, Yedrin did consider Worf family.  All we know is that Yedrin Dax was part Trill and part some other species (since Jadzia had been the only Trill on the Defiant).  I can't prove Worf was a literal ancestor of Yedrin, but no one can disprove that theory either any more than Willie can prove Yedrin was part human.  As such, isn't it premature to say that Yedrin was part human?  Can we really be certain of that?  And if we cannot, then why have we assumed this on the main page?


 * We may all be speculating, and my speculations may even be less plausible than Willie's, but I am recommending we restrain our urge to speculate and stick to the facts. Why not have a new section specifically dedicated to this question, present the facts, and let the readers draw their own conclusions?  After all, is that not what responsible, unbiased archivists would do?


 * Sorry for the long passage there. I never was one for brevity.  The contributions to this page are well presented, and I hope haven't offended anyone.  --Icesyckel 02:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Interspecific sex
I think there might be enough references to the problems of Interspecies Protocol to make a list. Human/Bolian, Human/Varro, Klingon/Vulcan, and Worf makes a reference in TNG about how he can't do it with females on the ship without damaging them. Not sure if there are more. Any thoughts on where it should go? Jaf 06:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)Jaf


 * I went ahead and created the Interspecific sex page to facilitate some of the other discussions on this talk page not really fitting into the subject and started a list. Based on what you said of Worf, one might conclude Trills are sturdier than Human females? At any rate, now you can post it there.  --Icesyckel 20:05, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Naming?
So... "interspecific" isn't a real word. The word is "interspecies". -- Sulfur 16:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I would have agreed with you at first, but I looked it up and it is in fact a word: . Though I agree "interspecies" is more recognizeable, it is only a synoynm for "interspecific." --Icesyckel 17:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the page have existed since the rw-year 2004, and somepeople may search "Interspecies reproduction", I've taken the liberty to create a redirect to this page.-- Rom Ulan Hail 00:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Humans and Vulcans
I am curious, it has been a bit since I have watched, did they say whether or not any sort of medical assistance was needed for a Human and a Vulcan to have a child? I seem to remember a conversation hinting towards that, yet in looking around here on MA it looks as if it isn't necessary? --Terran Officer 12:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Klingons and Vulcans
Similar question, differnt enough for a new topic, it would seem... Anyways, does the mention of a Klingon/Romulan mix hint that it's possible for a Klingon and a Vulcan to also have a child? --Terran Officer 12:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I would think so, but there is no canon for this. The Romulans and the Vulcans are very similar, so it is fair to assume. But there is no canon basis for that it is so.-- Rom Ulan 13:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Vulcans and Romulans are almost certainly still the same species; 2000 years of separation isn't sufficient time for their evolution to signficantly diverge. So logically any species capable of interbreeding with Romulans can also do so with Vulcans, and vice versa. 75.76.213.106 00:11, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Remember that the Romulans seem to have lost their ability to mind meld, lost their strength (when compared to vulcans) and other such attributes the Vulcan's have...so it's hard to say unless there is canon evidence. &mdash; Morder 00:14, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Mind melding is a learned skill; most of the Enterprise-era Vulcans couldn't do it either, because they chose not to learn it. If none of the Vulcan exiles who became the Romulans knew how to mild meld, nobody would've been able to teach future generations how to do so either. And the reduced strength would be a byproduct of Romulus having lower gravity than Vulcan. Certainly there's been an evolutionary divergence, but it's almost impossible for a highly complex lifeform to diverge into two entirely distinct species in a mere 2000 years. 75.76.213.106 20:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still speculation. You don't know what environmental impacts may have occurred or anything else for that matter. Until an episode shows it then we can't state it. &mdash; Morder 20:16, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you mean lost there strength? In most recent film, one lifts an alternative captain kirk with one arm, in the Ds9 episode where O'Brien is traveling through time, we see them easily matching a Klingon in hand to hand, In Unification II they are able to restrain a Vulcan, how have they lost there strength? --86.174.236.28 16:58, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point. But the reference book often refer to them as physically weaker.  Then again weaker than a Vulcan may still be stronger than most races.  There's also been a long running theory that the rift between Romulans and Vulcans acted as a sort of artificial selection where most individuals with Psionic ability stayed on vulcan.--Marhawkman 21:22, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Starting
Again, just getting the article started. I know it needs work. --Icesyckel 16:52, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So... two things:
 * Is "Interspecific" even a word? Methinks that it should be "Interspecies".  Which btw, is a word.
 * Why do we need this? What can it tell us that we can't roll into the reproduction page?
 * As in... why such a sudden interest in all of this? -- Sulfur 16:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

You seem awfully suspicious ("why such a sudden interest in all of this?")? I found the article interspecific reproduction, and I wanted to fill in some new pages to provide a way to resolve some disputes ongoing in the discussion on that page. You know, trying to contribute. I agree that "interspecies"  is better than "interspecific," but it wasn't my idea. I was just trying to be consistent with the pre-existing page, "interspecific reproduction."

And remember: Memory Alpha:Be considerate to new members. I am still new at this, so cut me a break. I was just trying to help. --Icesyckel 17:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC).


 * Yah, when there's a sudden spate of activity on pages, one is always a bit curious. Secondly, it's nice to bring out the "be considerate card" a lot... just make sure that you've read the other policies and guidelines. -- Sulfur 17:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I am still learning. As for the policies - I read the ones you showed me, and sorry if I offended you or anyone by breaking them. If there is another you'd like to refer me to (to explain, for instance, what an "edit summary" is), then I will read that too - but don't expect me to have them memorized yet. I am not playing a "card" of any kind: I just signed up yesterday and have never done anything with wiki before then either. Sorry. --Icesyckel 17:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, to begin, the talk page guideline is to indent all of your responses to the same level. So, if you start a conversation, you always indent... well, not at all.  :)
 * The edit summary is that bit down at the bottom right above the "save" and "preview" buttons. It's recommended that you fill it out every edit.  That suggests to other people what you're doing on the page, and when you check the history of a page (button at the top right beside the "edit this page"), you will see those edit summaries.  The other place they show up is on the recent changes page.
 * Most of the policies and guidelines that you need to know about can either be picked up by "lurking" about and visiting various talk pages, seeing what kinds of edits admins tend to make, and that kind of thing. They are also pretty much all linked from the welcome that you received on your talk page. -- Sulfur 17:44, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

So I shouldn't indent here if I understand correctly, because I am the one who started? Thanks for the advice btw, and sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. Truce? Oh, and based ont he policies, shouldn't we delete this whole conversation? Technically, we're not so much discussing anything about the article. Last remark: should this be labelled a stub? --Icesyckel 17:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge?
I'm wondering if this article should be merged with Sex, as the races or species of the parties involved does not change the fact that it is still sex. I realize that currently the Sex article is simply a list, but this could be expanded into an article about it, starting with this article. --31dot 18:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Might not be a bad idea, but I started this page from a discussion on the interspecies reproduction page about a month ago. In doing so, it ceased some kind of argument about whether the info on this page belonged there.  I don't mind, personally, if we merge, but it would seem silly to do so until we determine whether it can be done without rehashing that same issue.  Perhaps we could make this a different subject heading under sex?  Then we could redo the links on the interspecies reproduction page.  I wish I remembered now what the specifics were of the argument there, but I have to leave for a Christmas party soon.  I'll look at it again and see what the dispute was that caused me to spawn this.  It may be moot now for all I know.  --Icesyckel 22:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I looked, and the dispute was about including info on interracial reproduction into a page entiteled "interspecific reproduction," which was later changed to the current page "interspecies reproduction." Also, interspecies sex was created to differentiate between examples of interracial sex in canon versus interracial reproduction.  What the value of the information is I cannot say, but I started the interracial reproduction page and the interspecies sex page to separate items that people said did not belong in the interspecies reproduction page.  As for reorganization, I am not opposed to it at all.  It does seem that these could all be separate subjects on the "sex" and "reproduction" pages.  --Icesyckel 02:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with the merge, sex is sex. Kennelly 15:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * SEX...I mean, support. Sounds like good grounds for a merge. - Adm. Enzo Aquarius...I'm listening 15:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait... why can't this just redirect to interspecies reproduction? --From Andoria with Love 06:06, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Anybody? --From Andoria with Love 03:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Shran's idea is better. Merge (read, redirect) into interspecies reproduction.– Cleanse 07:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * So is this, or is this not just the same thing as biological reproduction? Seems silly to have two pages on the same topic, when they both mean to reproduce (therefore getting rid of the disambig page in the process). --Alan 21:31, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

=Humans and Bajorans= Is it possible for a Human and a Bajoran to have a child?.--24.131.197.142 23:15, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably, but unconfirmed. --Alan 23:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)