Talk:Who Mourns for Adonais? (episode)

Removed from Background
I removed all of the following from background for POV or nitpicking:


 * ''The destruction of Apollo's temple, combined with Fred Steiner's incredible music score, is a very impressive special effects sequence, closely mirrored by a much less interesting phaser barrage on Vaal a few episodes down the road.
 * ''Chekov's comments about Russians being responsible for all of the greatness of humanity were intended to be a regular feature. But except for this episode,, , and an aside about the Garden of Eden being "just outside Moscow" in , this did not end up happening.

So it never happened, except for 5 times? Notes like this are just ridiculous. In general, TOS episodes need a massive cleanup for background information to avoid this. – Cleanse 23:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

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I have removed the note that James Doohan did the flying stunt involving Scotty being zapped by Apollo. Despite Doohan's claims in his autobiography, Jay Jones did the actual stunt (it's even mentioned in his Wiki entry). A simple freeze frame of the DVD will show it wasn't Doohan at all. Scott son of Pete 16:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

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Removed the following as a nitpick as well as opinion(whether something is notorious or not). If such a statement can be corroborated from a production source that it was an "example of cost-cutting", it can go back.

In one of the more notorious examples of cost-cutting in the series, the Enterprise's attack on Apollo's temple is represented by a still picture of the Enterprise firing her phasers, with sound effects dubbed over the top.--31dot 19:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

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More:


 * In the teaser, Spock affirms that "sensors indicate no life-forms" on Pollux IV, but he should have meant "no animal life forms", since the planet has many vegetable life-forms (which are not an illusion created by Apollo, as they remain after the god goes away).


 * The premise of this episode – that ancient mythological figures were powerful extra-terrestrial beings – would later become a driving premise of the science-fiction film Stargate and its television spin-offs.
 * In the middle of the episode, Spock refers to Apollo by name, but no one on the ship could know about him – when Kirk and his team beamed down to the planet, their communicators had been disabled and Apollo had not identified himself before they beamed down. Although Spock would probably run a computer database check, so he could easily identify the entity.
 * Chekov comment about the Cheshire Cat being Russian is self-contradicted soon by him saying it is from Minsk, so from Belarus. Belarus was unlikely to have been perceived by the 1967 American script writers as having a separate identity from Russia, however.

Nit, off topic, nit, nit/speculation. --Alan 20:46, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

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 * In one scene Spock calls Apollo by his name despite the fact that Spock is not present when the identity of the alien is revealed. Due to the communications blackout he could not possibly know the name before the climax of the episode.

Nitpick.– Cleanse ( talk 09:27, October 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think this is a very valid point. Spock refers to Apollo by name despite not having a way of knowing who he is or what he is called. At no point was he able to be informed of this knowledge before he first referred to "Apollo," nor was it ever indicated to him before this that Apollo even considers himself a deity. Either this was an oversight or remained after some scene was removed or part of the script was changed. This is clearly a plothole that would fit nicely under background information. How is this a nitpick? --wa&#39; DaHoHchugh chotwI&#39; SoH, wa&#39;&#39;uy&#39; DaHoHchugh charghwI&#39; SoH, Hoch DaHoHchugh Qun SoH. (talk) 05:52, July 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * "Plotholes" are generally not something we document, per MA:NIT. If this alleged hole was discussed by Trek staff, then it could be. 31dot (talk) 09:28, July 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Spock is a highly educated science officer, whose field includes historical and mythological knowledge, so I'm sure he could guess Apollo's identity soon after their encounter with him. But even if he could not, they have a really huge computer databank. After a few minutes of "googling", the Enterprise main computer very surely can identify Apollo. -- Ltarex 16:28, July 10, 2012 (CET)

Mistake in the "Background" section
It was stated in the background section of this episode: "Chekov comment about the Cheshire Cat being Russian is self-contradicted soon by him saying it's from Minsk, so from Belarus." Actually, at the time of the filming of this episode, Belarus was a member nation of the U.S.S.R. It was common (especially for Russian Soviets) to refer to anything originating in the U.S.S.R. as being "Russian". Capt. Crunch
 * That was a common error at the time, and perhaps also should be noted, but Minsk was part of the Byelorussian SSR and not the Russian SFSR. --OuroborosCobra talk 14:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

"Czar of all the Russias" refers to "Great, Little and White", where "White Russia" is Belarus. The linked to wiki page talks about "[t]he Union of Russia and Belarus, a supranational confederation." Who's to say that by the time of TOS it's not all considered part of "Russia"?
 * I removed that section altogether. See above. --Alan 20:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

We find the one quite adequate
What happened to Star Trek avoiding religion? It seems quite clear that Christianity or some similar religion is still prominant when kirk says "we find the one quite adequate" when referring to Gods. Wheatleya 22:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Easy. For the most part the idea of Star Trek avoiding religion or the future being atheist is more a fan belief than one that actually happened in canon. From TOS on, there was religion depicted in Trek. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You also had the episode where the planets inhabitants worshiped the Son when everyone thought it was Sun. Bajor was huge in DS9. The Dominion. The Klingons. So yeah, they didn't avoid religion. – Morder 00:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What episode was that? --TribbleFurSuit 01:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * , I think. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I always took the Bajoran religion as just that - Bajoran. While Sisko got caught up in it, it seemed fairly clear that everyone else in starfleet considered it primative. But yes after seeing Bread and Circuses its very clear that chritianity was still a mainstream religion during TOS Wheatleya 19:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention . --OuroborosCobra talk 19:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't remember a single noticeable mention in TNG or Enterprise for that matter. I realise from a real world point of view these are more recent where atheism has become more prominant, or maybe the directors/writers simply didn't want to open that can of worms. Anyone want to chuck in an in-universe suggestion? Wheatleya 23:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Patrick Stewart's in-universe explanation when asked why baldness hadn't been cured was "In the 24th century, they wouldn't care". From this I extrapolate that, just as rightly, in the 24th century, human religion is a personal matter that doesn't intrude into professional or intercultural spheres. --TribbleFurSuit 01:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In the TNG era (though on DS9), Kasidy Yates said that her mother would want her to be married by a priest. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * In Trek, explicit atheism is portrayed even less (infinitely less) than religion, in Trek's human culture as well as all the others. I doubt that "changin' times" has anything to do with it, and I also doubt that atheism's prominence has changed in one direction or the other over the times in the real-world anyway. I mean, come on! It was the sixties! If anything, certain religious voices are the ones that seem louder than ever today. Roddenberry himself, way back when, is the one who conceived humanity's "outgrowing" of religion. Anyway, I just realized that a lot of info is available here if you're just interested and aren't actually discussing this episode's article. --TribbleFurSuit 02:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Aha, just the article I was looking for, thanks! Wheatleya 23:19, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This is just a simple suggestion, but couldn't Kirk's line be interpreted as mockery of Apollo: "We don't need gods, one of you is frankly enough", that sort of thing?

Quotes section
Chekov's line ought to be "I am the Tsar of all the Russias" rather than "Russians". Not only was that the tsar's title, but that's what he says in the episode.--Moggy 17:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What is stopping you from fixing it? --OuroborosCobra talk 18:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I did fix it, I just thought I'd be polite and mention it here, just in case. Not that it's a big issue...--Moggy 22:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Synopsis and Premise
I don't know where to put this, as I have terrible time with Wiki. However, this episode description is incredibly skewed to favor Kirk. It would be nice if someone revisited the end of the episode description. This entire episode was written as a major feminist anti-sexism anti-abuse episode. Abusive Father and submissive mother. In fact, more than twice in the episode the Men of the away party are called Children, Adonais is called Father, and the singular woman is to be his "wife". This isn't a "point of view" of the episode, it IS what the episode was made to address.

Kirk DOES nearly get killed. His plan would've resulted in his death, even if the Enterprise managed to destroy the temple afterwards. The whole concept of this episode was the submissive woman NEEDED to defend herself, and those she cared about. While she was "reluctant", she did realize that Adonais was a bad guy, and she DID make the choice to stand up to her. The way this episode summary is written, the ensign is almost completely ignored, and it's made to look like Kirk saved the day because she didn't want to "betray" Adonais. As I said before, incredibly skewed interpretation of not just the script, but what the production team explicitly said about this show.

Also, it'd be nice if someone could get some part of the quote where the ensign emasculated Adonais at the end.

Seriously, the premise of this episode was centered around physical abusive, specifically mothers in abusive marriages. Cast members say this. The production team said this. :sigh: 71.218.234.132 15:02, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you have a citation for where the production team/cast/etc state these things? -- sulfur 15:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Besides the absolutely blatant script -- Nichelle Nichols briefly touched on it when she was here in Denver, and I remember reading another from a magazine interview. Which is really why I am asking someone else to do this. Even if you "don't believe me", the fact reminds that the script itself differs more than a little with the synopsis presented on this site. And that alone needs to be fixed besides the comments of the cast/crew that I mentioned earlier. --71.218.234.132 21:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Search & Autosearch problem
This article suffers from the same problems as the two I wrote about on the.

Like Archduk3 did for that page, I made a redirect to bypass one of the two problems. While not actively searching for pages with this problem, I will make a list of all those I come across on that talk page as well.


 * It has been brought up with Wikia staff. We're currently waiting on feedback from them, as it is definitely a bug in the autosearch module. -- sulfur 00:37, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Nevertheless, it can do very little harm to keep a list of the pages somewhere, even it is only for taking out the redirects once the problem is solved. Also, I copied your comment to the linked talk page in order to keep the discussion/information in one place (it's not the optimal place, but it's the best place I know). I hope you do not mind. *Jasper* 00:41, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Scott on energy
I've seen this in German and Italian and at one point Scotty informs the captain that Apollo must have an energy facility because "Without energy you can't do anything."

Since this is a really stunning insight for an engineer and in particular for Scott who is always urged to deliver "more energy", I think it's worth quoting. Can anybody please find out the exaxt words in English?

Actually I think it might be the phrase of his life and I'm really astonished that nobody quoted this earlier.

Removed

 * Apollo compares Spock unfavorably to Pan whom he claimed "bored" him. Pan is the god of the woods and pastures in Greek Mythology. His appearance was that of a satyr, a man with horns on his head and a goats lower body. Some legends suggest that the word "panic" was derived from Pan's name. Such legends relate to stories that the nurse who delivered the infant Pan fled in irrational terror (panic) upon seeing the infant's satyr-like appearance.

I've removed the above or something similar a couple of times, and I'm not quite clear on the Star Trek connection here. --31dot 22:50, March 15, 2012 (UTC)