Talk:Espionage

I would wonder if William Ross should be listed as a spy. While he did briefly work for Section 31(despite his denial), he did not conduct espionage. He maneuvered Bashir into doing so, but he did not do it himself.--31dot 22:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * He was an operational part of the op to place a Starfleet operative within the Romulan Pratoriate, and WAS present on Romulus as part of that op. That's my reasoning for including him.Capt Christopher Donovan 00:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say that simply working for a spy agency doesn't make one a spy, even if they are involved in an operation. The CIA has many employees that are not 'spies', even though they may work on operations.  It's not really a big deal to me, though.--31dot 12:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess the difference I was trying to point out is that Ross was actually IN the field, actively carrying out his part in the op, not just sitting in an office somewhere analyzing data or something.Capt Christopher Donovan 08:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Secret Agent Man
This article's definition of secret agent is wrong. Agents, by definition, act against their own countries. (Except when they transfer allegiance to their handler's country, but that's a bit esoteric for this article.) Is it established Star Trek lore that "secret agents" are personnel sent "to perhaps garner information, kill someone, or steal something, all to protect their own country?" Outside of Julian's holosuite fantasies, I mean.--Delta1 (TROC) 04:25, March 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I never saw James Bond act against Great Britain. In any event, we define it as it is presented in canon, with a link to wikipedia for how it is defined in reality.--31dot 10:52, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

James Bond was not an agent, he was an MI6 officer. Had he been employed by the Soviets (or SMERSH, etc.) to act against the United Kingdom, he would have been an agent of the Soviets, like his colleague Kim Philby. What is the canon source for "secret agents" acting in their countries' interest in the 20th century? Assignment: Earth, perhaps? I think that's the only episode where 20th century intelligence is dealt with. (Episodes dealing with popular spy fiction don't count.)--Delta1 (TROC) 05:08, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about the fact that they do in the real world? The CIA certainly thinks they employ "special agents." --OuroborosCobra talk 05:16, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

We are discussing "secret agents," not "special agents." I have no idea if CIA's IG employed 1811 investigators in 1968--it was notoriously understaffed in the 70s, and had no statutory authority until the 80s(?)--but I'll readily concede G7 used the OIG as cover. A grossly inappropriate and poorly conceived cover, but he was very bad at his job, so it fits. However, the fact remains that an OIG investigator has nothing in common with the "secret agent" described in this article. Incidentally, there were no "secret agents" in Assignment: Earth. Are there any other episodes that deal with the 20th century intelligence community?--Delta1 (TROC) 07:54, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your argument hinges on your initial assertion that groups like the CIA and MI6 don't have "agents," that agents, according to you, serve only against their own nation. The CIA disagrees with you. We are, and will continue to use the terms used within canon. --OuroborosCobra talk 08:01, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * [Edit conflict] - I suppose it comes down to what you would consider the operative word to be in Secret Agent. Based on the wording alone, I would say the entry is from a line in "Our Man Bashir". Without watching the episode though, I couldn't say if it was about the program in general or one of Bashir's descriptions of 20th century Earth. - 08:05, March 17, 2010 (UTC)