Talk:Time's Arrow, Part II (episode)

Nitpick
In "Q Who?," Q mentioned that he had dealings with Guinan "two centuries ago" and even said "Guinan, is that the name you go by now?" In this episode in the 19th century before she met Q, she is still known as "Guinan."--Reginald Barclay 14:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * So, she may've used another name when she previously encountered Q. Irrelevant nitpicking. -- Sulfur 14:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, because she is an El-Aurian (forgive me if I mispelled that) on Earth, she may have changed her name and id every now and then. For example, she spends time from 1850-1900 as Madame Guinan, 1900-1950 by Random Name 1, and so forth until it was recognized that she was an alien.  This probably did not happen until after 2063.  Also, El-Aurians are warp capable, and she may have encountered Q in some distant corner of the galaxy.  We know Guinan is cautious of her suroundings, so she may have given a false name for protective purposes.  I don't know if that made any sense, but that's always been my explanation.– Nmajmani 00:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Nmajmani
 * Exactly why is pointing out blatant inconsistencies in the series "irrelevant"? I think the fact that the show's creators couldn't keep their characters' back stories consistent is absolutely relevant.
 * This has been discussed utterly to death at Memory Alpha talk:Nitpick, and then made a policy. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Temporal Ethics
It seems odd to me that Guinan refused to help Riker make a decision to resolve the crisis at the end of this episode, but in she went out of her way to make sure Picard made the decision to join the away team to Devidia II. Suck My Wake 03:32, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * She knew that he simply wouldn't have gone on that away mission normally. Since she knew that he was there in the past, and that he wouldn't normally go, she must have needed to "help" history along.  I'm not saying it makes sense dramatically...  but it makes sense from her perspective as a character.  – Hossrex 05:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Plot Hole
Toward the end of the episode, after Clemens has (off-camera) used the walking stick to return to the past, Riker and Worf are apparently expecting Picard to show up, with Riker saying something like "If Clemens made it back, Captain Picard should have been here by now." Worf responds, "We have no way of knowing if Mr. Clemens was successful." Actually, they did have a way of knowing that, though not of knowing of Picard's fate. All they had to do was consult their Federation database to see what it said about Samuel Clemens -- either "he died in 1910" or "he vanished in 1893 and was never heard of again."

Also, this delay was "explained" by the fact that the walking stick placed Clemens on Market Street, whence he had to make his way to the cavern on the Presidio. A la Kirk's return in "The City on the Edge of Forever" ("What happened, sir? You only left a moment ago"), shouldn't Picard have appeared in the twenty-fourth century immediately after Clemens left the twenty-fourth century? (Right, that wouldn't have been as "dramatic.")
 * Even if they could check their historical records and find that Samuel Clemens was alive (assuming that the nature of time travel in this episode says that if that changed, that the change should be immediately have altered their computers rather than there being some delay) that wouldn't actually imply that he was successful, because getting to Picard was part of him being successful.


 * Also, there's no reason to suggest that Picard should have arrived back exactly on time. If you're travelling with a device that transports you to an exact point in time, then of course you would. If however the device moves you an exact amount of time back and forward (in the style of 'Goodnight Sweetheart') then a delay makes perfect sense.


 * So this can't be called a plot hole, even if we noted them here. 58.110.182.64 10:33, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Best of both worlds...
''* In, Guinan tells Picard that the Borg's incursion into Federation space would not mark the end of humanity, which Picard remarks she says with "remarkable assuredness." While Guinan claims she can do so due to her own people's experience with the Borg, the events of this episode would suggest that she knew that humanity would defeat the Borg, since Picard had not yet gone back in time to the 19th century to care for her in the cavern.''
 * Again, speculation and doesn't belong. I'll wait until a higher up comments before removing it. --Morder 09:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I may just be a normal user, but I think it is pure speculation. Especially for this article. If it would have been the Best of Both Worlds-article then it would be due for a reconsideration. But for this page it is just speculation. I vote for a remove. -- Rom Ulan 09:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, and have removed the comment, since it has been three months.--31dot 22:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed comment
Removed the following:


 * Data losing his head in the past only to have it reattached to his body in the future is parodied in an episode of Futurama, "Roswell That Ends Well", in which the robot character Bender has his head fall off in 1947 only to be retrieved more than 1,050 years later. This theme itself may be reference to  in which the robot character Marvin is buried for thousands of years after traveling to the past.

as the latter portion is speculative without a citation, and the former part is not relevant to Star Trek.--31dot 22:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Captain Picard
Can someone explain to me just how Captain Picard could not remember meeting Guinan in the past?


 * Because he hadn't yet. The Guinan that was in the 1890s was from Picard's past.  The Picard in the 1890s was from the time that we are following him in, therefore he would NOT have met her until he reaches the point in time where he travels back.  Make sense?

Whoopi Goldberg
Apropos of the statement about Whoopi Goldberg's availability for this episode, I believe that the woman being carried out of the cavern on the stretcher at the end of the episode is not Whoopi Goldberg, because she's shown only from behind; you don't see her face. I don't have any proof of this, of course, but it make sense, at least to me -- why else show Guinan only from behind, especially when you're so happy that you have Whoopi Goldberg on hand? If Goldberg was on the set at that time, wouldn't they have made maximum use of her by showing her face?

Removed

 * Brent Spiner plays Data playing Puck in this episode. In the Disney animated series Gargoyles (in which he appeared with Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn and Kate Mulgrew, among other Star Trek alumni), Spiner also plays Puck, though characterized somewhat differently from Shakespeare's.

The above comment seems more appropriate for Brent Spiner's page, given it is not a Star Trek-related production. --31dot 12:51, January 23, 2012 (UTC)