Talk:Keiko O'Brien

Background Info
I'm surprised that there is no section on her near complete absence from Deep Space Nine series. It seems that most of the time, she (and the children) is written out of the show because she is "on Bajor" or "on Earth", or some other contrived reason. I am curious as to why the character is not present more regularly. At some point perhaps someone should research this. Joeloveland 16:12, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * She was in 19 episodes of DS9 and 8 of TNG. She wasn't a major character and was mostly there to add more definition to O'Brien's stories. -- DhaliaUnsung 16:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Needs Attention
I added the PNA to the main page. I feel it could be organized a better, especially the content under Career -> Deep Space 9. Perhaps it just needs to be broken apart into sections, but it seems a little over-whelming and leaves you kind of scanning for information when it should be easy to find. I think it may be all the line breaks and single sentence paragraphs. --Cinder 21:21, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, some of the stuff under Career doesn't really seem very... "careerish" and should probably be moved to personal life or perhaps the career section should be renamed (but to what, I'm not sure). I added some more information about her school stint. --Cinder 22:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry - this isn't overly constructive, but the writers ceased to do interesting things with the character after the initial TNG episode in which she married the Chief. I'm not trying to be negative, but I am trying to point out that many of the references to her in DS9 were to write-in a reasons why she isn't present for an entire episode even though she was married to a vital character.  My point?  There isn't a lot of interesting information about her apart from what is in the article already.  The actress did a quality job, but the character's development and lines were lacking.  Organizing her sporadic appearances and splintered careers is difficult because the writers did a bunch of random things with her.  Hence one sentence paragraphs and a difficulty creating headings.  Perhaps we should consider agreeing on an entirely new approach?  Such as scrapping the usual headliners and drafting the page with from a "timeline" approach?     --Icesyckel 01:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there isn't much to the character. It seems they kept her around because Miles is the "every man"--wife and kids. What if it was just broken down into "Early life", "Life aboard the Enterprise", and "Life aboard Deep Space 9"? --Cinder 07:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Disagree. I don't think its our place to judge the quality of the writing for any aspect of Star Trek.  The mandate of Memory Alpha, as I understand it, is to catalog, and archive all the information regarding canonical Star Trek.  If that requires that we catalog/archive poorly written pieces of script/dialog/plot, then thats what we do.  It would be contrary to our mission goal to lose canon information about Keiko O'Brien, if the only reason was because it was contrived, or poorly written. – Hossrex 09:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

We're not talking about losing canonical information, just trying to reorganize the article to fit better with the available information (which, honestly, isn't much really). Besides, we can judge all we want, as long as it stays in talk and out of the article. --Cinder 09:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you may have misunderstood my meaning Hossrex. I didn't intend to suggest we alter the article b/c of my judgment of the writing quality pertaining to Keiko.  I agree that we should keep and archive as much canon as possible.  My point was once of cause and effect.  The writers' lacking attention to the character and poor development of her caused the effect that there isn't as much canon as we would have liked for this article, given that she was married to one of Trek's most celebrated characters spanning 2 (arguably 3) series.  Also, there is the other effect that what canon we do have is sort of a random hodge podge of facts and developments with little commonality.  For that reason, it is very difficult to categorize the information we have available.  I meant absolutely no disrespect to you, to the writers, to MA, or to Trek, generally.  I was attempting to phrase the problem in hopes of spurring discussion that would give us a potential solution to the question of how to improve Keiko's article.


 * That goal has been met. I completely agree with Cinder's suggestions for categories.  To be honest, Cinder, I am sorry I didn't think of those categories myself.  Excellent suggestions - using her "life aboard" as a model allows for a logical organization of the random source material and solves many of the problems facing this article.  Provided there are no objections, did you want to begin the edits?  I wanted to wait to give Hossrex an opportunity to respond.  --Icesyckel 23:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I also support Cinder's categorisation; it makes sense here. Off-topic question, but how did Miles "arguably" span 3 series? – Cleanse 23:39, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Couldn't remember if he was seen on DS9 during Voyager pilot? If so, then 3 series.  If not, then only 2.  --Icesyckel 01:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll see about starting the edits. I'm still rather new and getting used to making minor edits, let alone bigger edits. But I'll give Hossrex time to respond while I look over how to proceed. If anyone wants to jump in, feel free. --Cinder 03:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Missing Info
No references in article associated with several paragraphs from DS9 events or are missing altogether, plus no mention of Kirayoshi, among other missing events. --Gvsualan 13:35, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Oddly, she is referred to as a professor by Bashir at one point. Season 2 I believe.


 * It's not odd at all if she's a professor. Jake called her that in, Bashir called her that in . I think we have to go with... she's a professor. --TribbleFurSuit 20:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Theory on her mother
It mentions that her mother was born in 2269. Is it possible her mother could be Demora Sulu? That's just my theory.


 * I highly doubt it- and in any event article talk pages are not for posting our personal theories; they are for discussing article changes only. 31dot 23:54, June 23, 2012 (UTC)