Talk:Treaty of Algeron

Date
Was this really the treaty of 216x that ended the Earth-Romulan War? I always assumed that Algeron was a much later treaty... -- Cid Highwind 23:46, 7 May 2004 (CEST)

It is, yes. I checked several sources. - Rob 23:05, 7 May 2004 (BST)


 * Canon sources? I'm asking because I can't remember such a quote, and one of the latest Pocket Book novels suggested something else. While the novels aren't canon themselves, they at least try not to be contradicting. If something like this was mentioned in an episode, please state the title - if it is just speculation, that paragraph should be rephrased. -- Cid Highwind 17:07, 8 May 2004 (CEST)


 * Well, semi-canon; the Star Trek Encyclopedia. I haven't heard anything that contradicts what is said in this article, yet. - Rob 20:40, 8 May 2004 {BST}


 * That's the first edition of the Encyclopedia. Subsequent editions quote the events of the episode (which had not been written when the first edition was published). It mentions the Treaty directly, and Pressman and Picard reference it having been signed 'sixty years [ago]', suggesting a direct parallel with the Tomed Incident of 2311. -- Michael Warren 22:20, 8 May 2004 (CEST)

I've always associated the Treaty of Algeron with Rikers statement of hardly a pep out of the Romulans for 50 years from "The Neutral Zone"; even before "The Pegasus". --TOSrules 22:06, 17 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Another possibility to be considered might be that there was an original Treaty of Algeron signed at the end of the Earth-Romulan war, and then a second/additional treaty or codicil to the treaty after the Tomed incident, which reinforced/added certain terms. (If memory serves, this would similar to the Geneva Accords, which came not out of one event, but several events over the years.) --umrguy42 14:02, 7 Apr 2005 (CDT)


 * In "the Pegasus" which takes place on stardate 47457.1 corresponding to 2370. A line of conversation goes as such:


 * RIKER: They were brave enough to risk their lives to stop you from violating a treaty the Federation signed in good faith.


 * PRESSMAN: That treaty has bound our hands and given the Romulans a tactical advantage for sixty years. I was simply trying to level the playing field.


 * Which would put the signing of the Treaty of Algeron in and around 2310. --Illwill 06:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Which is consistent with the date of 2311 on the page.– Cleanse 06:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

How come the Romulans are allowed to use cloaks but the Federation aren't?
Isn't the treaty a bit one-sided? Avengah 16:08, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Gene Roddenberry declared that the Federation would never use cloaking devices so there ya go. "They don't go sneaking around" or something similar to that. --Morder 16:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * From an in-universe perspective, it was simply a stipulation of the treaty. The cloaking device was the Romulans' toy and they didn't want anyone else using it. --From Andoria with Love 08:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed there's a caveat listed about "space-faring" vessels only mentioning the mines for example. The Federation also extensively uses cloaks when monitoring pre-warp cultures (the Baku for example.) Maybe the treaty only limits military use of cloaking?67.67.223.240 23:02, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think those were holographic, and not cloaks, otherwise the Federation would use them for infiltration.--31dot 23:23, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who is to say they don't? --OuroborosCobra talk 00:29, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, they might. I would think a holographic masking system would be easier to detect for a technologically advanced species, which is why they use it on prewarp cultures- but it could work for others, too.--31dot 01:07, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * In Insurrection, the base may have been hidden by a Holographic face, but the operatives are clearly wearing cloaked suits.67.67.223.240 20:09, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Insurrection may be a bad example. They also had a holoship with a cloaking device, which was a direct violation of Algeron. The whole movie is about the Federation breaking its own rules and laws. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:17, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Development and Use
I'm pretty sure it's been stated on screen that the treaty prhibits the Federation from "developing" a cloaking technology, but has it been stated in canon that the treaty also prhibits the "use" of a cloaking device by the Federation whether developed by them or not?
 * MikeWard1701 01:02, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you are referring to the Defiant, the cloak was used on it by special agreement with the Romulans, where they got all the Federation's Dominion intelligence. They wouldn't have needed such an agreement if the UFP was able to use cloaks without developing them.--31dot 01:06, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Klingons
I'm surprised nobody's suggested that the cloaks the Federation used in "Insurrection" and on the mines in "Call to Arms" were using Klingon tech. They were allies during that time, weren't they? Of course, I could be missing something. - Mitchz95 03:26, November 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * The fact that it was never stated to be Klingon tech, for one... --OuroborosCobra talk 03:58, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Removed

 * Though, the Romulans may have been unconcerned by the violation due to the seriousness of the situation with the Dominion. It is also possible that cloaks are banned on Starfleet vessels only as the Federation holoship was also equipped with a cloak.

Removed the above portion of a bg note as speculation. --31dot 21:39, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Mines
In regards to the mines, someone has made a slight mistake. I think we can be quite sure that Bajor is not a signatory to the treaty. How the treaty would be treated considering that the Federation is vaguely involved and administering the station is a tricky issue but it is Bajoran space, a Bajoran Space station, Bajoran Workers are involved (Rom) and so on. The Federation only administers it. It raises questions but it's not a de facto violation as far as I am aware. Considering the Federation's relationship with the Klingons, I don't believe the terms of the treaty to be that far reaching. That is, to the effect of what their allies do or what they do with their allies. At this point in the series, Bajor is still an independent ally of the federation rather than a member of the federation.