Talk:Changeling

Home planet
In "The Search, Part II" the Female Changeling specifically mentions that the Rogue Planet they now inhabit (until "The Die Is Cast" of course) is not the planet of origin. The dialogue is "The solids feared our metamorphic abilities. We were hunted, beaten, killed. Finally we arrived here. And here... safe in our isolation we made our home." There should be something in the article about this.

Pages for individual changelings?
I wonder if we should, or can, make pages for specific changelings, in order to distinguish them from the counterparts they replaced -- like ones that had fairly substantial roles, like Lovok (Changeling), Krajensky (Changeling), Martok (Changeling), Julian Bashir (Changeling), which were, in fact, all separate "individual" Changelings, and therefore should be disassociated from the true identities of the "real" Lovok, Krajensky, Martok and Julian Bashir?? --Gvsualan 13:55, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * I agree, especially as the real Lovok or Krajensky were never seen. There should also be a Miles O'Brien (Changeling), as he appeared in . Rebelstrike2005 14:02, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * Should some of the information from Lovok and Krajensky be taken out or left as it is? Rebelstrike2005 14:08, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)

In the case of those two, I suppose the article would consist of the basics on those individuals -- and then move the rest over to the Changeling article -- ??. Especially in the case of Krajensky, where we can include an image of the changeling in his "true" form -- as he was a signification plot-point character -- before turning to dust. Oh, I forgot to mention Leyton (Changeling). I was also thinking about how we might incorporate the Changeling "baby" from ? --Gvsualan 14:12, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * Infant Changeling? Changeling (Infant)? Rebelstrike2005 14:16, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * I was also thinking about the Changeling in Star Trek 6. Shouldn't she/it be here as well? Rebelstrike2005 14:17, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Martia from ST6 was not a Changeling, not in terms that it is used here. She was clearly identified as a Chameloid - and all the same character, just appearing in different form. The point of what am proposing is to distinguish unnamed-unidentified Changelings who portrayed known characters from the *real* characters they mimicked. --Gvsualan 15:00, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * Sounds like a good idea to me - Rebelstrike2005 22:57, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * Can we be sure these are different beings in all cases? Tyrant 23:02, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant


 * It is impossible to say one way or the other, but when you look at the fact that the Great Link covers an entire planet, it is likely there are millions of Changelings - Rebelstrike2005 23:06, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * Therefore, the pages that you are proposing to make will not be about the entities themselves, but about some of the forms that they take. I see this as problematic. Tyrant 22:51, 13 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant

I think it will make them much more accurate than on the character's article. The Martok Changeling is only referred to in a paragraph of the Martok article. There is much more that could be said about him/her/it Rebelstrike2005 22:57, 13 Mar 2005 (GMT)


 * Your point is well grounded and I don't have a better way of doing it. I do, however, advice that you be aware of the problem I have pointed out when undertaking this task. Tyrant 23:00, 13 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant


 * This isn't much of a problem -- the only Founders we've ever seen that didnt die were Odo, Laas, the Female and the one who impersonated O'Brien/Leyton. "Krajensky" died his first appearance, so we know he wasnt appearing anywhere later, "Bashir" died after a few months -- but he mightve been the earlier changeling on Earth. "Martok" died after a few months -- but he might also have been the one encountered earlier. "Lovok" died his first appearance -- but he also might have been the Earth one. -- so there's really only one individual who might also have been one of the others -- but we know it was impossible for someone to have been all of them, since they all met their end before or during the others' spans in disguise


 * Unless they were switching off and Martok was actually a few Changelings (Fred on Tuesday; Ralph on Sunday and Saturday; etc). Lovok and Krajensky we definitely know were individuals continuously disguised as one person through their appearance - -they died upon first being seen-- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk

Kill a changeling?
I was wondering if we could think about one good question, how do we kill a changeling?

To kill a changeling??? Easy... either fire lots of Klingon disruptors at it:, or push it against a warp core, as in:. Both work quite well... zsingaya 09:19, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Never was too clear on why being pushed against the warp core killed it. Federation 03:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Changeling history
Would it be inappropriate to speculate that Sargon from, the humanoid from , and the Founders from DS9 are actually the same species? Sargon and his people were never seen, but had seeded the galaxy with their DNA, as did the progenators. Sargon's people had the ability to transfer their consciousness. The Founders had superior abilities in genetics and consciousness transferrance (duplicate Weyouns had the same memories). Also Salome Jens played the humanoid progenator from "The Chase". The next year she played the Female Changeling on DS9, with similar makeup.

Also, the title "Return to Tomorrow" is a little odd for a stand-alone episode. As part of a multiple-series narrative, it puts the title into a new context and adds continuity to Star Trek.--Mike Nobody 03:59, 30 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * Although I'm always for continuity, I think there's little evidence to support this line of thinking. Federation 02:56, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * This makes a lot of sense and I support the idea. It gives Star Trek and the war with the Dominion far more depth.  This is something that could have brought DS9 and the Dominion to TNG/Borg levels of popularity.  The Federation is at war with the Founders aka the beings that actually created all the classic Trek races.  That's awesome.  It's not actually supported by canon other than the fact that the ancient human and the changlings/founders look like the same species....however it is good enough to be my own personal canon....and could be plausible in trek lore canon. William Shula

Changeling (Earth)
Son't we need a Changeling (Earth) or Changeling (legend) to desicribe the Earthly legend of the Fairy child who was put in place of an earth child, that Kirk talks about in --TOSrules 04:55, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Go right ahead. Jaz *** 05:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well which one do you think would be a better title, or should this page be moved to Changing (species) because the other ref came first? --TOSrules 05:05, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The Changeling species is a much more popular and prevalent than the relatively (speaking) off-hand reference Kirk made about Nomad. It would probably be best create a useful redirect on this page to Changeling (folklore) for the less significant reference. I really don't think we need to move this page in account for a single reference that didn't carry a tv series through 5 seasons. --Alan del Beccio 05:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, just wanted to know the best way to ref it, thanks. --TOSrules 05:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * And just so that everyone reading this understands, Phlox (Hierarchy) came before Phlox, but the latter is clearly more important that the first, hence why it gets the primary page assigned to it and why the former was relegated to serving on an qualifier page. --Alan del Beccio 05:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

"Rendered uninhabitable"
Where is it stated that the Omarian planet, which was in turn an adopted homeworld from an unknown original, was rendered uninhabitable? They didn't get many shots off before the Jem'Hadar engaged them, and future episodes show the ocean-like Great Link of the same scene as The Search, implying the same world. --ChrisK 12:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The crust of the planet was turned to liquid by orbital bombardment. The attackers didn't realise that they had been duped until the Great Link still registered on their sensors when logic told them it should have been exterminated. Wratched 07:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I seem to remember that clearly. And the location of the new homeworld was being kept secret.  Of course whether or not the original was now inhospital to the changelings is an interesting question.  We know the changelings are not impervious to energy weapons, but they do seem to be more tolerent various environments than other lifeforms we've seen.  They can even live in space.  Its clear they couldn't have survived the bombardment, but could they had returned perhaps, but didn't primary out of security concerns.  Federation 02:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Changeling physiology
There isn't much in this article about changeling physiology. How much do we even know? For instance; changelings are liquid, but they don't drink, they are organic, but don't eat. Obviously they must renew themselves somehow. Is there any information as to how? Wratched 07:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that the changelings are one of the worst thought out species on Star Trek. First off, their name is cute, but confusing, especially given the TOS episode about the legend.  Second, as awesome as it seems for Odo to be able to change into smaller objects, the question of conservation of mass is certainly valid.  Does Odo suck in the extra mass from the air around him?  Wouldn't that create a hurricane?  Or does he store it in subspace pockets?  Not a capability that other species would seem to posess.
 * The truth be know, the species could had been presented more realistically. I also have my doubts about the believability of the lifeform existing in a vacuum.  Federation 20:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Are they really liquid based or is that just their normal state during life?I ask since,they condense into small granules after death,wouldn't it be better to describe them as simply fluid,as it has never been canonically establish what their primary chemical constituent is,if it is protein,or silicon,or some other more exotic material,perhaps even trilithium resin.Wejvagh 03:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That changeling only died because he was pushed against the warp core by Odo. The female changeling says that changelings are "timeless" (ageless) Vortaborg 05:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There was also that changeling that died in the DS9 episode, though we don't know why it died, it also reverted to soot looking granules. Vortaborg 01:19, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Changelings Telepathic?
Are the Changelings considered telepathic in any way? When they link, what all is shared? (And on a slightly unrelated topic, if a Vulcan were to mind-meld with them, since they have no internal organs, and therefore no brain, what would happen?) :)

~Tvral 06:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd have to say yes. There even has been some confirmation in dialogue. From :
 * BASHIR: "It would seem you're not as solid as you think. When I ran a neurochemical scan of your brain, I found residual traces of morphogenic enzymes, which I've only detected before in changelings."
 * ODO: "The plasma storm that hit the runabout activated the enzymes and initiated a telepathic response."
 * Based on that, something inherent to Changeling physiology that has to do with the Link is considered "telepathic". --OuroborosCobra talk 08:35, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Can travel at warp speeds?
Someone wrote in the article for "Shapeshifter" that Laas in the DS9 episode "Chimera" traveled at warp speeds through space without the assistance of a ship. I checked out the article for that episode on this site and it seems to allude to the same thing. I don't remember the episode but if that is the case I would think that would be something pretty important to include here. I suppose people could assume Changelings could do that by taking the form of a ship or something, but that event just seems too important to leave out of their description. Can someone confirm that and if it is accurate, add it in?

They were traveling at impulse when that changeling approached, they said they had just entered the Bajoran system and dropped out of warp.--Mailmanq (talk) 01:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Faces
I have question as well... if all other changelings, apart from Odo, can mimic humans so well, why do we often see them with similar facial discrepencies as Odo (undetailed ears, and flat faces)? I suggest this is because they can't be bothered to create an individual identity for themselves, so they just approximate a humanoid to save time and energy. We have seen changelings replicate humanoids exactly, such as O'Brien, Dr Bashir, Martok. Any thoughts? zsingaya 09:19, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * In season 05, Children Of Time (I think that is the correct name), Odo is stranded on a planet for several hundred years. He is then depicted with having a realistic face.  When Maj. Keria askes him about it he says something to the effect that he has had a lot of time to practice and master forms.  This would seem to indicate, despite what we have been told earlier, that it is HIS inability to mimic faces that prevent it from happening.  At least after he regains his shape changing ability.

69.1.59.67Modgod


 * No, it's not "despite" anything. This is exactly what Odo said about himself. No wonder that more mature changelings, including his own 500-year-older self, do better job of it. TribbleFurSuit 01:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Regarding why other Changelings look like Odo, OK, Laas was his littermate, so to speak. Plus the Female Changeling basically said that she approximates Odo's own form rather than any particular humanoid or type of humanoid. She's not really that into looking humanoid in the first place. Lastly: There might be a sort of template, maybe a racial memory, which Changelings generally find easy to form - they had to have evolved from something primeval, amirite? TribbleFurSuit 01:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly why Odo is still unable to perfect Human faces even after linking with the Female Changeling is unknown. In the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Millennium series, he speculated that the Founders may have installed some kind of inhibitor on his ability to mimic faces to encourage him to return to them; however, it has been stated that he retains his current face because that's the face people know him by, so why this is relevant is unclear.

I removed this because it says "why this is relevant is unclear" which makes it pointless. Plus it's speculation/memory beta material :) &mdash; Morder 06:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Our Man Bashir's Replacement
Not to be a kill joy but do we know exactly whether or not The Bashir imposter was a changeling? We never saw him change shape unlike the other imposters. He could have just been a clone of Bashir. Also, he was performing a suicide mission by trying to blow up Bajor's sun. Usually Changelings make species of solid to do their work, and they are advanced at Cloning. 98.217.147.41 01:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We have never seen the Dominion clone anything but Jem'Hadar and Vorta, and their standard replacement tactic has always been Changelings. In addition, during the dialog where Martok talks about his changeling replacement (referring to it as such, IIRC), Bashir immediately responds with "I can only imagine what my replacement is up to". Everything we know about the Dominion indicates that this would be a changeling. In addition, the episode script refers to it as the "Bashir Changeling". --OuroborosCobra talk 01:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, replacement doesn't mean Changeling. We know the dominion can clone other than Jem'Hadar and Vorta, when Weyoun mentions he's been cloned several times and that he can offer Sisko (a human) the same kind of "immortality" The thing is we've never seen a changeling sacrifice itself for it's people, rather than creating a solid to do it. Still the script is somewhat convincing, provided that takes precedence over what we see in the show, but if there was something that obviously didn't happen and was never shown in the show, but the script said it did, would we go with the script? Which is more canon? Vortaborg 05:18, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The episode most definitely implies that the Bashir replacement is a Changeling, does not directly in any way say that it isn't, and the script further clarifies what was pretty clear in the episode. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:22, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Betazoids reading Changelings
Can anyone remember in what part of Fascination is it stated that Betazoids can't read Changelings? I watched the episode fairly recently and I didn't catch it. MaGnUs 00:21, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed
It is unknown if, when Odo took the shape of a computer in "Paradise Lost", he truly could act as one or whether he just looked like one.

We don't state what is unknown.--31dot 14:04, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Changelings as combadges?
What's the source for this statement?


 * They could transform parts of themselves into smaller electric devices, like a combadge and make it operational

I always assumed Odo just hid his comm badge inside whatever other shapes he assumed. 87.244.95.216 16:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe it was seen shapeshifting, though I don't recall when(perhaps ).31dot 17:40, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * In, when he's just short of a puddle on the biobed, his combadge definitely looks "liquidy" - and when he links with the Female Changeling, his combadge disappears. Of course, that's basically a nitpick given the reality of this being a TV show.. I suppose they could have done it with the combadge being the only thing remaining - hang the badge from a blue-colored string or something and then render it out the same way they do blue-screening.  Interestingly, the Doctor's mobile emitter is basically the same problem in reverse - in {{e|Message In A Bottle}, when he de-materializes from Voyager, his emitter should drop to the floor - but doesn't - it just disappears with the rest of him. Jswitte (talk) 06:09, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Reverting to the liquid form
This could be proven true as the Female Changeling claims that she didn't take another form in weeks, when Weyoun suggests that she might relax in her liquid form in "What You Leave Behind".

IIRC - in the "What You Leave Behind" she stated that she "was unable to take another form for weeks", due to the Morphogenic virus? Shouldn't this be precised in the article? 87.249.145.69 17:13, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I.e. rather than a "natural ability of all Changelings except Odo not to revert" it rather seems to be a disability induced by an ilness?78.128.177.162 15:41, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Wording
In the post, it uses the words "Changeling" and "Founder" interchangeable, but they are not, Founders are the rulers of the Dominion, while Changelings are a species. For example, Odo was not a Founder, until he joined the great link in the last episode of DS9. --Mailmanq (talk) 01:33, July 21, 2013 (UTC)