Talk:Cardassian/archive

Cardassian female
The image "Cardassian-female.jpg" should be deleted, but I don't know how to... The reason being simple: I'm not sure is this is really a Cardassian...


 * Er, yes it is a Cardassian female - it's Seska. There are probably better choices of Cardassian females, though, as Seska was still in the process of restoring her Cardassian features. She was surgically altered to appear Bajoran prior to this. Alex Peckover 12:20, Jun 9, 2004 (CEST)


 * Hmm, I see. Well, I now added another image to the Cardassians page. Ottens 12:22, 9 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * Keep that one, i'll implement it at the Seska article... --BlueMars 12:57, Jun 9, 2004 (CEST)


 * I already did. ;-) Ottens 13:05, 9 Jun 2004 (CEST)


 * I suggest we move back to Garak as example of Cardassian male, as the picture of Tain isn't too well lit. -- Redge | Talk 13:23, 26 Aug 2004 (CEST)

PNA
I've added this because the episode references need to be moved into the article with the associated text references, and just from the looks of it, in terms of how short the article is overall -- compared to the number of references listed, I would guess that there is a LOT more that could be added to this article. --Alan del Beccio 18:14, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * Is "Observer Effect" the only episode that needs to be removed to make the last section strictly 'appearances'? Valley Forge 17:23, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it is. I don't know about the last Voyager listing (everything else post-Seska says Hologram), but all the other episodes have Cardassians in them... To Alan: I think it might be easier, rather than looking for where every bit of information came from, to just write the article and list the sources used. I know, we'll have to put inline citations to conform with MA standards, but I think it looks cleaner without them. --Vedek Dukat Talk 02:19, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Having a "list of references" is frankly a waste of space. Inline citation is the only way anyone can and would know where the information is coming from, rather than guessing from the list at the bottom of the page. I am readding the pna-cite to the uncited sections on that account. --Alan del Beccio 02:38, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Blue teardrop: endemic to Cardassian females?
I have noticed that the inverted teardrop-shaped recession on the foreheads of Cardiassians is always blue in females and flesh-colored in males. Is this an accurate observation? If so, it should probably be mentioned in this article. However, during the scene in in which Garak is attacked in his shop by Klingons, Garak inexplicably has a blue teardrop, rather than the usual flesh-colored one. Is my observation regarding Cardassian gender dichotomy erroneous, and is this teardrop somehow indicative of mood instead? Any comments would be appreciated. &mdash;Shawn81 07:18, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * The reason Garak has it (I haven't seen the ep) might be a bruise or something, but I do remember one of the make-up guys saying in the special features that they had a problem with Cardassians because there was virtually no way to tell the males and females apart. That's why the spoon is blue in females. --Schrei 07:22, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Interesting theory, however his spoon was blue before he was attacked, and in the next scene he is lying in sickbay and his spoon has returned to its usual color.
 * I think it was season 2 dvd special features. --Alan del Beccio 07:40, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I have added a note about the blue spoon for Cardassian females to this article, and have also noted the nitpick on the episode page. &mdash;Shawn81 08:22, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * uh... dont human female put makeup on thier faces too? I dont see what the big deal is. IP User:69.199.55.143 - 09:11, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)


 * I think it's make-up, like, wasn't the teardrop of the engineer who was hitting on O'Brien a different colour when she /really/ propositioned him? In other news, Garak experiments with cross dressing!  He was kinda growing his hair out at that point anyways.  Mr.Spock was wearing blue eyeshadow to match his uniform in the original Star Trek, since this is the 23rd century, absolutely no big. - T'Sura Feb 21, 2007.
 * I would like to point out that in the Voyager episodes and, Seska's teardrop is blue and flesh-colored at varying points.  For instance, when she boards Voyager it is clearly blue, but when she is disabling the EMH, it is much more flesh-colored (upon close examination it appears to be slightly blue, almost as if stained from previous applications of makeup).  - AarrowOM 23:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, the slight blue coloration may be endemic to female Cardassian physiology and the deeper blue color as a result of makeup, similar to the color of human lips and lipstick. - AarrowOM 23:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

List of appearances
Hmm... It just says Deep Space Nine, but I don't think every episode actually had a Cardassian in it. At the same time, it might be such that listing the episodes they're not in would be just as long as listing the ones they are in. Would a separate page or some other method of consolidation be appropriate? --Vedek Dukat Talk 09:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a separate page is the correct answer. It has already been done for Klingon appearances. Jaf 12:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)Jaf
 * I just created that page. --Jörg 13:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed info
The following info was removed by an archivist for unspecified reasons:
 * As time progressed, Cardassian technology must have advanced rapidly. In much of DS9, Cardassians are put on a more equal footing with the Federation. This suggests a rapid advance of Cardassian technology, most likely acquired from other races. In, a Cardassian officer attempted to steal technology from the enterprise. Other possible explanations include later contact with Romulans and the Dominion.

I'm assuming it was removed for being in the wrong perspective, but this was neither stated nor was the deleted info placed here for discussion. But it's here now, so no worries. --From Andoria with Love 07:24, 6 April 2006 (PDT)

Removed picture
Why has the picture of Dukat been removed? -- Tough Little Ship 12:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I did not remove it, but it was poorly lit, and did not show what a male Cardassian looked like very well. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  12:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Architecture
I recall reading somewhere (The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine?) that Cardassians like curved angles as well as things arranged groups of three. There was another reference (?) that stated that Dukat's office was placed higher than the other areas at ops as an example of Cardassian architecture; the higher-ups preferred to look down on their subordinates. -- StAkAr Karnak 21:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Culture
Where was it brought up that the Cardassians are only interested in science for the sake of the military? Wouldn't that contradict their curiosity of the puzzle in "The Chase"? Could we please have more references?

Also, just asking, but what was the irony in Julius Caesar? That Brutus was branded a traitor by the masses, because he betrayed Caesar, out of his loyalty to the state which is supposed to be the masses? - T'Sura Feb 21, 2006.
 * (science question) That line is cited as being part of of either . Also, it is not a contradiction at all. Remember why the Cardassians were looking for the solution in "The Chase"? They thought it would to an unlimited power source. If that isn't something with possible military applications, I do not know what it.
 * As for the Caesar thing, I would personally consider it an irony to be stabbed and killed by one of my closest friends. --OuroborosCobra talk 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

A bit of contesting against the line about Cardassians being firmly embedded in fan's minds as the Nazis of Star Trek. To be honest I've watched most of DS9 and all of TNG and not once until I read this passage did I consider them to be representative of the Nazis. Were they a militaristic and orwellian society? Most definitely yes but Shogun-era Japan was always closer to mind than any 20th century comparison. I realize that Trek has a strange passion for 'Nazis are the bad guys' but I would contest that the referenced comment is speculation and/or personal opinion. Here is the line precisely:

"The Cardassians were firmly cemented in fans' minds as 'the Nazis of the galaxy'" It is in the 'Appendices'/'Sociology' section of the page


 * A "strange passion"? I do appreciate that there was a disproportionate number of appearances for what would have been, in the 24th Century, a long-dead dogmatic, ideological regime. But you shouldn't be so flippant about a regime that arguably rehabilitated the word "evil", according it an almost scholarly status. But that's a digression.


 * The Cardassians, as portrayed, had overt parallels with the Nazis, and to a lesser extent, the Japanese military regime of WWII. No doubt there was additional allegorical commentary on how distorted and pliant humanity can become when it is placed in such doctrinal conditions, but that is inconsequential. As Star Trek tends to reflect an American perspective, it's unlikely that WWII Japan would have had an appreciable influence in the development of the episodes that engendered that abiding perception of the Cardassians. There appears to be a sufficient availability of sources to verify the passage but I'm unsure whether the format of attribution is comparable to Wikipedia.92.10.151.174 05:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Why not start by revealing any of those sufficiently available resources. Without those, the format of attribution here is definitely comparable to Wikipedia's: that is to say, unattributed material ideally dries up and blows away before the mighty wind of the crufthosers. Similarly: "all my friends think so", or "some guy made a site on Tripod about it" do not constitute attributions. --TribbleFurSuit 05:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Peer Review and possible nomination
Does anyone else think that the Cardassian page would make for a good Featured Article after it went through a Peer Review? I think it has more than enough information about the species and after a bit of a cleanup could easily be nominated for a Featured Article. - Thot Prad 15:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Featured Archive Nomination
This article has been worked on considerably since its last nomination. The last time it was nominated it failed, solely because it was lacking a couple votes, (NOT because there were objections to the nomination). I have submitted the article for peer review, and have received no advice on how to improve it. Therefore, I feel the improvements already made to this article after its previous nomination should be more than enough for it to receive the sufficient votes for a featured article. Support - Thot Prad 19:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose, for now. I don't see the peer review link up anymore otherwise I'd post there.  I have some issues with the article that should be resolved first before I can support.  It's mostly complete but the Philosophy section has a lot of content that would seem to fit better under Society and Culture, or perhaps Philosophy should be a sub-section of that?  I see very little there that is revealing about Philosophy which I would consider to include Religion, the meaning of life and so on (see the Ferengi or Vulcan pages).  Certainly bits about architecture and the paragraph following belong in Society.  Also, I think there are some things missing here that can be gleaned from other episodes such as hostility between men and women often being a prelude to mating (Destiny).  And given the importance of the military and intelligence services it definitely needs a section or sub-section for each even if it's brief and links off to the main articles a la the Klingon page. Logan 5 19:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, the link to the peer review is here.--Tim Thomason 20:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't this be resolved by now? ~ Anya Prynn | Talk 02:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There, I have taken the time to add a considerable amount of information regarding the military, intelligence agency, education, religion, etc. and have formatted the page layout to be a bit better. I believe it will be to your satisfaction Logan. *UPDATE* Should you not change your "object" to "support" now that I have made the corrections and additions? I don't know why you haven't already... - Thot Prad 19:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I've been busy! Given the changes I'm comfortable withdrawing my objection and putting in a mild support.  The support is mild bc I still feel like there has to be additional info out there in other episodes, esp. Voyager given Seska's pregnancy (pointing to compatibility with other species), Mocet's experiments (in combo with treatment of Bajorans its further illustration of their racist tendencies).  But it's much improved. Logan 5 20:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't know if this is still open for discussion (shouldn't this have been resolved weeks ago?) but with the new additions, I heartily support this article's nomination. ~ Anya Prynn | Talk 01:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * As it stands, the article meets the criteria of a featured article. Rest assured, I will likely go through the Voyager episodes with Seska to obtain additional information which I will eventually add to the page. I am also going to be re-watching (more or less) all of Deep Space Nine, so any additional information I come across I will add. I appreciate your input and support Logan 5. - Thot Prad 00:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Mild Support from me as well (because it may be lacking, but it is very well-written). For featured status, it needs one (five total) more support vote. After that we wait seven days for any objections. If there are no objections, it will (should) be featured then.--Tim Thomason 00:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This article has been expanded a lot since I was last here, Thot Prad really did a lot of good work on it. Support.  ~Starchild ~ Talk 5 July 2007


 * I have added a large amount of information to this page, including the ability to breed with other species in the physiology section, as well as a bulk of information in the society and culture and philosophy sections which I think is quite important. I hope these additions will be sufficient to boost those "mild supports" to "supports". Not that it makes much of a difference in the votes, but I'd like my fellow Memory Alpha members to be pleased with the page and see my commitment to this site. Let me know if there is anything else you think should be added, though I think I've squeezed out almost all the important information on this species. - Thot Prad 07:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's been over a week since the last needed support vote, why has this not become a featured article yet? - Thot Prad 00:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose, at least temporarily. I just took the time to read through and copyedit the article, and made quite a few changes to the page (albeit relatively minor ones). In my mind, I shouldn't have been able to find nearly the number of fixes that I did in an article that's ready for featured status. Someone else should at least take a second copyedit pass on it first. -- Renegade54 01:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand where you're coming from Renegade54. I just reviewed the edits you made (the vast majority were formatting of links and templates and some grammar changes/minor rewording) and I appreciate you taking the time to do this for the whole page. I have just gone over the entire page myself (again), while also looking at the edits you made, and I have been unable to find anything requiring significant changes like what you just did. The page is broken up nicely into sections and sub sections, spelling and grammar has been checked numerously, links and references are all present, and now there are no multiple links to the same page (I just took the time to go through the links and make sure there weren't any unnecessary links to a page which has already been linked too). Any other changes made will be because of one's preference, not because they're necessary. Even Featured Articles get edited from time to time. Considering that the necessary time has already elapsed since the required votes for it to reach featured status, and I just copy-edited the page a second time, I think you that you should be ready to change your opposing vote. If you have any other concerns or comments, let me know. I've put a lot of time and effort into this page, and I'd hate to see all the support votes go to waste. I believe everything you've mentioned has been resolved at this point. - Thot Prad 05:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's fine, I just wanted one more set of eyes scanning the page to see if I missed anything. If not, then my objections have been met and I support the nomination. -- Renegade54 14:34, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Technology
In the tech section while discussing the Klingon/Cardassian war, and relative technologies, it fails to note that while the Galor Class warships aren't on par with the big capitol ships of the major powers (Galaxy, Vor'Cha, D'deridix classes) they appear to be a match for the much smaller K'Vort class ships that make up the back bone of the Klingon fleet. Any thoughts on the subject? (StarkeRealm 12:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC))
 * Has it ever been stated that they are on par with K'Vorts? It was stated that they were behind modern designs like the Galaxy class (in, if I am not mistaken). Getting past that, what was stated, and I think we are pushing into the realm of fan speculation, which is a dangerous ground. --OuroborosCobra talk 14:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Physiology
There are some striking physical similarities between Cardassians and Denobulans. Apart from the "spoon" on the forehead, the two races have the same cranial ridges around their eyes, ears, and chins. Any reference to the two species being somehow related?


 * Just what you wrote above. One could say something similar about the Vaadwaur. --Alan del Beccio 19:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * i think perhaps these issues should be addressed in a section dealing with make-up over one on genetics.