Talk:Andorian

FA nomination (31 Oct - 09 Nov 2004, Success)
Andorian. The article now reflects all decisive events in the Andorian timeline and covers all given facts regarding Andorian culture/society. --BlueMars 18:21, Oct 31, 2004 (CET)
 * Supported. Good work. Ottens 19:21, 8 Nov 2004 (CET)

FA removal (03 Jan - 2005, Success)
Andorian -- As stated on Talk:Andorian, most of the content has been moved. The rest no longer deserves the "featured" status. -- Cid Highwind 16:43, 2005 Jan 3 (CET)
 * Delete. A lot of the content was moved to Andorian Empire. Perhaps that article can now become featured. -- Harry 18:03, 3 Jan 2005 (CET)

FA nomination (14 Apr - 22 Apr 2005, Success)

 * Andorian - complete and comprehensive. 'Nuff said. --Gvsualan 00:36, 14 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * I dont think there's anything more to be added. Ottens 08:49, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Support - the background information is very comprehensive. zsingaya 15:15, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - One of the best species pages I've come across. AJHalliwell 15:24, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * DS9 references need to be completed. Tyrant 15:21, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant
 * Mind clarifying what specifically? --Gvsualan 18:23, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * "Several other DS9 episodes" needs to be clarified. Episodes need to be listed for the sake of listing in the references section, plus I'm a little worried that if we don't know the episodes we could be missing information.  I'm not against it being featured, but I would like to see the page finished. Tyrant 18:34, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant
 * I've added all the missing ones that mentions anything andorian. so that should clear that objection up. --Dalen 19:42, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The page is finished in terms of what should be found there. Nothing from the "several other" has anything to do with what should be included in this article. Those episodes refer to everything mentioned |Society//See Also| and various Andorian animals on the Andoria page. --Gvsualan 06:54, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I still don't think this deserves to be given any objections. --Gvsualan 13:52, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Support The page has been completed since my objection. Nice work Dalen. Tyrant 14:06, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant
 * Support - I support it. Basically only minor polishing and stuff from upcoming episodes remain to be added. --Dalen 16:06, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Images
While the material in this article is top-notch and well-written, I am curious as to the layout of the images. They don't seem to have much of a context given to them in regards to their placement. Since this article has Featured Article status, I wanted to get some permission to move around the images. I want to add this image gallery to the main article to demonstrate the four main placements of antennae:

I would also make the following changes: This allows all of the original images to remain on this page while making them more useful to the user.
 * Remove the images from the gallery from their original locations.
 * Move the Andorian Admiral up to the Physiology section.
 * Move the image of the Andorian god down to the Background section with the ST:V note.
 * Move the Andorian script image to Society.
 * Use File:Shran_and_Archer_fight_the_Ushaan.jpg in Traditions and Culture.

Do any of these changes have any impact on its status as a Featured Article? Am I free to make these changes if I feel they will benefit the article? Seems as though there was some editing done a couple months ago and it was voted as featured nearly two years ago! --Topher208 11:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I agree, the placement of the images were horrible, more images than space to cram them into. The sections in which they are placed were, I am guessing, to better proportion where they appeared on the page, and in reality, a sidebar should have been been used like the one on the Romulan page-- this is to say, the Andorian Admiral wasn't supposed to be part of the section he was place in, it's just where he was placed to get his image in the right part of the article.


 * To comment on the intent of the images in the sidebar content, they are theoretically supposed to show the "evolution", or uh, "diversity" of the species over the series'/centuries. What a female looks like, what a male looks like...ect. (Again, it should have looked more like the Romulan page).


 * Anyway, I've gone ahead and updated the page to give it the proper format the page should have had (more or less using the images you suggested in a sidebar vs. gallery) and modified placement or removed several images as per a few of your suggestions. The only qualm I have is with the use of the Andorian female from TMP...and it's not a big qualm, but I guess the fact that it is a screen test shot and not a "real" screencap, one might question "how" canon it really is. So, with all that said, you really didn't need to ask anyone to do a major overhaul on the page, but it is much appreciated that you brought it up for discussion to facilitate brainstorming the direction of this article. Feel free to enhance as you see fit. --Alan 12:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

They look much better that way. Great job! Being relatively new, I didn't know about the sidebar thing. I guess I didn't pay that much attention to it the last time I visited the Romulan page. That being said, if you don't like the Andorian female "test shot", you could use the Andorian Admiral instead. I do like that image since it shows that Andorians served as members of Starfleet and is "more canon."

If you used the Admiral instead of the test shot, you could replace Shran with that beautiful shot of Lt. Talas. That is, if you'd like to still show both male and female of the species equally. --Topher208 19:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The one thing I genuinely like about the TMP female is the fact that her antennae appear to be a unique design, as noted in the article. The Admiral basically looks like something between Shran and Shras, and bald. Not as unique. --Alan 19:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

cobalt-based blood?
Where is it stated that Andorian's have cobalt-based blood? Either it's an assumption here and needs to be duly removed, or needs to be referenced and annotated on Blood as well. --THOR 08:05, 31 Jan 2005 (CET)


 * And on that note, you other edit antennae connected to nasal cavity... where did that come from as well? Books are not canon. --Talah Blue 00:08, 2 Feb 2005 (CET)


 * I took out cobalt-based blood and antennae connected to nasal cavity until sources can be found to back up the claims. Tyrant 23:23, 14 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant


 * I removed the following:


 * "Their skin color comes from cobalt-based physiology, similar to the Bolians."


 * As that has never been said in canon but is speculation found in some books The Biology of Star Trek, for example. --Jörg 06:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to interject here. I don't know the exact episode right now (I'll write back when I find it) but I it mentioned in the Enterprise series that the antennae are connectected to the nasal cavity. I believe its in the episode where Shren gets one cut off.
 * Trust me, I know Enterprise very well. It never said that. It simply said that he lost his balance with only one antenna. BTW, I seriously doubt you're interjecting here, 'cuz this conversation is two years old -Angry Future Romulan 02:10, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

High temperature susceptibility
Am I the only one who thinks that losing 10% of one's body weight in climates approaching the boiling point of water is actually pretty much opposite to any reasonable definition of "susceptible"? A human in 100 degree Celsius climates would probably die. The hottest temperatures recorded on Earth are in the 50-60 degree Celsius range.

For a species from an ice planet, even being able to set foot on a planet with climates of 100 degrees Celsius is huge.


 * Andorians are very susceptible to high temperatures, an Andorian can lose 10% of its body weight in as little as two days in climates approaching the boiling point of water.


 * I haven't seen the episode in question, and I don't doubt it's true that Andorians are susceptible, but the wording of the sentence seems weird to me. The boiling point of water is 212&deg; F or 100&deg; C&mdash;even at temperatures in the 90s and 100s (&deg; F) humans have dehydration-related problems, and certainly would not survive at temperatures approaching 200&deg; F. Knowledge Seeker 05:38, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree it's a bit odd wording. But it's basically the wording Shran uses when he says it. --Dalen 19:45, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * It is basically word-for-word how he said it, but it deserves re-wording here cause that is awkwardly phrased. - AJHalliwell 07:11, 11 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * Agree, In fact, if the Andorians only lose 10% of their weight after two days at 100°c, they are extraordinary resistant to high temperatures, since such 100°c would kill a human in a matter of minutes. Unless of course the atmospheric pressure on Andor in much lower than on Earth, then the boiling point of water is lower too. --rami


 * yeah, I'm going to weigh in on this to. it sounds to me like they are not all that susceptible to high or low temps by humanoid standards.


 * It doesn't matter what Shran says, if this encyclopedia is written from a human point of view, then Andorians are NOT susceptible to high temperatures. If people want, the article can note that in Shran's opinion this counts as being susceptible.  But such a statement is not an absolute that can be repeated in an encyclopedia without question.
 * This makes no sense. If Shran said it, then it's from his perspective, not by "human standards" as you say. --Alan 22:01, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In addition, this encyclopedia itself isn't written from a human point of view. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Skin color
What evidence do we have that it is the reproduction between Andorians and Aenar that produces the green Andorians? I don't recall any line like that in the TATV episode and it sounds like speculation. It seems far more likely that its a case of racial specie-ation very similar to Africans/Asians on Earth or the specie-ation Tuvok shows re: Vulcans. Logan 5 02:38, 14 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Shran and Jhamel's daughter Talla, an Andorian/Aenar hybrid, was shown to have greenish-blue skin. 71.236.33.191 03:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I heared that all Andorian children are green and become blue later... --Trent Easton


 * Not to bring up old conversations, but watching with the text commentary on, Denise and Michael Okuda suggest that "It may be that Andorians have different ethnic groups, with different skin colors just like humans. After all, in, we saw that some Andorians have white skin." What is the canonicity of these commentaries? Are they acceptable as background notes? --Topher208 18:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Including that note as background information is fine, but it cannot be added to the main part of the article since the theory has not been directly supported by canon. --From Andoria with Love 02:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Four genders
"Andorian weddings are known to usually require groups of four people. This is due to their unusual physiology that has four sexes, each equal to the other and required for producing children. Two of these sexes can be considered 'male' and two 'female'. For a long time Andorians were unable to reverse the effects of inbreeding that this four sex method caused, something which was not previously found on their Homeworld. However, recently there have been discoveries of four-sexed animals on their world, aiding research which might provide the answer to their genetic problem."

This all comes from DS9 books. It is not cannon and has never even been hinted at on an episode or movie. The reference at the end of the paragraph is misleading as it implies that it was said in either ENT or TNG.


 * Indeed, alot of that is speculation and should be removed. What four-sexed animal is this even talking about? What genetic problem? Novel-non-canon indeed. - AJHalliwell 07:11, 11 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * This stuff has apparently been moved to the Apocrypha section where it belongs, but shouldn't there be a note about how the idea was clearly contradicted in ENT? 71.236.33.191 03:12, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The idea of Andorians having four sexes has not been contradicted in the slightest by ENT since the novels establish that two of the sexes look like males and two look like females.


 * Except that the only Andorian romances depicted in ENT consisted of two people each, with no implication that an additional pair would be required. 24.214.230.66 07:58, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

I should like to point out that during the episode 'Data's Day', Data mentioned that Andorians married 'in groups of four, unless', at which point Data was interrupted. That one word 'unless' would seem to indicate that it is not necessary for Andorians to marry in groups of four.EvanC 14:41, June 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * It also wasn't clear whether Data meant that all four people would end up married to each other. "Marriage" can, in addition to referring to the state of being married, be synonymous with "wedding." So it's quite possible Data meant the ceremony normally requires a minimum of four people. Most human cultures' wedding ceremonies, after all, require at least three people: the couple getting married, and the person officiating the ceremony. 24.214.230.66 07:58, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Intravenous injections
There is no canonical evidence that Andorians cannot have intravenous injections. McCoy happens to be saying that intravenous injection is preferred but intramuscular (note correct spelling) can be used as an Andorian is being injected. There is no reason to assume that because an Andorian is in the background this in any way means anything like Andorians cannot be injected intravenously. - MarkJake

Copper-based blood
I am removing the following:
 * "It is a possibility that Andorian blood uses hemocyanin oxygen transportation, as do other organisms living in cold environments with low oxygen pressure. Under these circumstances hemoglobin oxygen transportation is less efficient than hemocyanin oxygen transportation. At room temperature, 75F, an Andorian with this physiology would be at greater risk from heat exhaustion or stroke than would a human. Hemocyanin is copper-based and is blue. Oxygenation causes a color change between the colorless Cu(I) deoxygenated form and the blue Cu(II) oxygenated form, which together with small amounts of melanin, may contribute to the Andorian blue skin."

While it is very interesting, it goes into a level of detail and speculation that is not warranted for an MA article. --OuroborosCobra 23:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)