Talk:Starfleet casualties (24th century)

Data?
Data isn't listed? Considering canonly he's a sentient being, he should be here. 68.9.205.10 10:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Data should be listed. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk

episode reference
Out of curiosity, why are the episodes in which the characters were killed or had their deaths referenced not included in each line? F8street 13:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Because the point of a list article is to be as informative as possible while still giving the reader cause to read further.. each character's name is a link to a separate article, and each separate article contains a link to the episode where the character died. Basically, the list is just for the names and as brief as possible an explanation of the death, and the reader who wants to know the episode reference will simply have to click the name to find out more information. (after all, this article would double or triple in size if we started adding more data, and this seems unnecessary if the data is duplicated in a separate article linked from here). -- Captain M.K.B. 14:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that makes sense. F8street 14:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Unnamed deaths should have a reference since there is no linked article.
 * -Archduk3 20:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Way of the Warrior?
Was that operations woman on Defiant killed? Shes the one that that reported on the status of the cloaking device as the Defiant set of to collect Dukat. Her console exploded, Sisko went to her, but then went back to his seat. Does that mean she was dead, or not seriously hurt and could be left?

Enterprise-C and Voyager
Added the known crew members since they were listed as KIA when the ship was lost. Also, Tasha may be from an alt universe but she died in the the prime universe. This makes Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman status problematic. Any thoughts on those two? Do we have an image of Kim's death?

-Edited from my previous comments by Archduk3 21:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Deep Space 9
Section needs citations. -Archduk3 17:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed from article

 * Unnamed security/engineering officer killed by the rebel Jem'Hadar along with crewmen and Bajorans in the attack on Deep Space 9.
 * Two security officers were killed while protecting the members of the Detapa Council with Dukat and Garak.

I can't find anything on two people being killed in which I think is what the second entry is from, but I have no idea what the first one is. If anyone knows who these people are please add them back in with proper citations or links. -Archduk3 03:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I went back and checked. The two security officers assigned alongside Dukat can be seen dead in the background when the Garak and Dukat are shown defending the council. The two should be re-added to the page.– Rorschach94 03:48, June 14, 2010 (UTC)\
 * The Officer shot by Klingons next to O'Brien in the battle should be added too. – Rorschach94 04:17, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I added that at least three crewmembers were killed during the attack, since I'm sure there were more. - 04:40, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Michael Jonas's entry in the "Rank" column
I see that the recently added for Michael Jonas under USS Voyager lists him as a crewman, which is supported in all his appearances. Yet, the rank pip shown next to his name is that of a Chief Petty Officer, as is shown on the Starfleet ranks page and is evident from the file name ("Vgr chief.png"). I looked at the picture of him and see that he was indeed wearing that rank pip. However, wouldn't this be classified as a production error, much like Tuvok's fluctuating rank early in the show? Since he was stated on numerous occasions to be a Crewman, I would think that we should show him on this page with the rank of a crewman--namely, with blank.gif for his rank pip (like we have for other crewmen on this page). Thoughts, anyone? -Mdettweiler 03:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit: I see that Lon Suder is this way, too. Interestingly enough, Suder is also seen wearing the one-bar provisional insignia in screenshots of him that I found on Trekcore from "Meld". Maybe this is just standard practice to have not only CPOs but crewmen as well wear the one-bar insignia if they're provisional? ("Official" Starfleet crewmen would, of course, have no rank insignia, though in this case the discussion is regarding provisional guys.) -Mdettweiler 03:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems to be the correct rank, see Starfleet ranks, Seska is an ensign, I'll make the change now. - Archduk3:talk 03:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Seska is also shown with the hollow bar insignia of a crewman or enlisted, so now we have a problem with her rank. - Archduk3:talk 03:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I see what you mean. Probably we should treat this like we do for other costuming errors (like some of Tuvok's earlier ranks like I mentioned in my initial posting), and show it as the correct rank (one filled bar, for ensign)? -Mdettweiler 03:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

As that is what it is now, I don't see any reason to change it until we know more, though you would think someone would have caught it by now, the picture on her page makes it pretty clear. - Archduk3:talk 04:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Timeline issues
I know this gets confusing, but the Picard listed as killed by himself is from an alternate timeline, but was killed in the "actual" timeline, and so is listed under the main section instead of the alternate one. This is the same reasoning that has Tasha Yar listed twice in the main section, under both the Enterprise-C and D. And if Harry Kim, Miles O'Brien, or Naomi Wildman are killed (again) they will also be listed twice. - Archduk3:talk 12:39, September 4, 2009 (UTC) The thinking behind this is our Picard had to write a report to Starfleet about the events of that episode, including killing himself, which means there would be a record of his death in the "actual" timeline. - Archduk3:talk 12:38, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * IMO, if the second Picard is from an alternate timeline, he should not be counted as a prime timeline casualty. See, in the "actual timeline", there is only one Jean-Luc Picard assigned to the Enterprise-D; that Picard survived the events of, therefore the "prime" Enterprise took no casualties during the episode. Listing the "alternate" Picard in the main subsection makes things too confusing. It would be much easier if the latter was listed in the "alternate timeline casualties". QuiGonJinn Talk 17:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Order
The page clearly states that the order is alphabetical by date. This makes it easier to find someone, as well as skipping the whole production vs. airing order debate. - Archduk3:talk 14:24, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Seska
I added Seska back onto the page, with the reasoning that once in Starfleet, always in Starfleet. The same reasoning is behind the retired officers and Marla McGivers, who is listed on the 23rd century page. Either way, if we do decided to remove her, or any others, we should at least add the additions to the Civilian casualties page. - 13:51, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for removing her without discussion, but I really believe that Seska should not be listed here. Retiring or leaving voluntarily as McGivers did is one thing, betraying the uniform and defecting to the enemy is another, IMO. QuiGonJinn Talk 16:27, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

I see your point, and if you want to move her to civilian I don't really have a issue with it. We just need some guiding rule on who should be listed here, and right now the only two were "once in, always in" and "death has to be referenced in canon". - 16:32, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Founder Bashir's Shuttle
Killed when the USS Yukon was destroyed by the Bashir Changeling's bomb.

It was certainly my impression that they were already dead.--Ten-pint 00:28, April 1, 2010 (UTC) Good point - I'm 99.9% sure they're dead (if they're incapacitated they could potentially revive and try to stop him, and the Changelings practically kill for sport), but since it isn't stated one way or the other, and even if they were alive then they weren't after the shuttle blew, it should probably stay the way it's written.--Ten-pint 07:36, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't know for sure. Maybe he just incapacitated them. QuiGonJinn Talk 17:53, April 1, 2010 (UTC)