Memory Alpha:Pages for deletion/Snoop

This is a page to discuss the suggestion to delete "". In all cases, please make sure to read and understand the deletion policy before editing this page.
 * If you are suggesting a page for deletion, add your initial rationale to the section "Deletion rationale".
 * If you want to discuss this suggestion, add comments to the section "Discussion".
 * If a consensus has been reached, an administrator will explain the final decision in the section "Admin resolution".

Deletion rationale
The article is written as a dictionary definition, and of course Memory Alpha is not a dictionary. I personally question the usefulness of an article for a term that was explained on screen withing seconds of initial use. I don't think anyone is going to watch and come here wanting a dictionary definition for this term. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Delete. Cobra hit this on the head. The article doesn't bring anything of relevance to MA except the definition (which, as Cobra pointed out, was given quite well in the one episode) and the fact that it was used. That would set a bad precedent for allowing other such articles here. --31dot 12:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, delete. There may very well be some use for the individual references to the action of "snooping" (see Talk:Snoop). Some of it may go to some article talking about espionage or similar, the reference about Data not being "designed to snoop" might be a fact for Data and so on - but unless we want to create articles for all kinds of individual actions, this shouldn't have its own article, either. -- Cid Highwind 12:51, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. Despite the arguments presented at Talk: Snoop, I still stand by what I said there. Defining various contexts in which a common verb was used hasn't changed my mind. I agree with Cid that we'd be opening the door for articles on all types of actions. - Bridge 13:51, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. --Jörg 07:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk page discussion
I'm mixed on the usefullness of this article, as it seems to me to be a simple dictionary definition, which as we know Memory Alpha is not. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:37, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'm not sure if it would be worth merging with the English language article, as the mere fact that Data knows a definition is not significant given he is an android.--31dot 20:40, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Added a pna.--31dot 00:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I made a motion, got a second, I'm nominating for deletion :P --OuroborosCobra talk 00:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, several references have popped up over the series, namely:
 * When Trip discussed reading T'Pol's letter in he said..."but no, they had to encrypt it, force me to start snooping. I feel like I got caught with my hand in the cookie jar."
 * When the crew discussed accessing the "restricted areas" of the Automated repair station in, Malcolm said, "This computer might not take kindly to people snooping around," to which Trip replied, "I haven't seen any no trespassing signs. We're explorers. Where's your spirit of adventure?"
 * When Archer joined T'Pol on her mission in, he told Tucker, "if that Vulcan ship comes snooping around, the last thing you want to tell them is that I'm with T'Pol."
 * When Torres and the Doctor were aboard the Serosan starship when she was attempting to deactivate Dejaren in, she told him, "I'm going to search the lower deck, see if I can access his primary isomatrix. You keep him occupied until I get back. I don't think he'd appreciate a filthy animal like me snooping around."
 * While Garak was aboard the Defiant during their rescue mission to Cardassia to find Nerysm, in, Odo brought him to the bridge and told Sisko, "Commander, I caught Garak snooping around outside the main phaser banks," at which point Garak replied, "I was taking a stroll to stretch my legs. The quarters here are claustrophobic."
 * A lengthy one: in response to the capture of the Ferengi during the Roswell Incident, in, Wainwright released a statement that what they found was a weather balloon, explaining, "we had to come up with something quick. The last thing we need is a bunch of reporters snooping around." Carlson added, "you can't keep this from the public forever, General. Beings from another planet have landed on Earth. It's one of the most important events in human history." The General acknowledged them stating, "Maybe. But we can't risk causing a panic. I'm not telling the public anything until we know exactly what we're up against."
 * When the 'nervous' Sisko learned that Bashir and his son were on a rescue mission to Ajilon Prime, in, he calculated that they wouldn't be home until Thursday, at which point Dax tried to lighten the mood, stating, "doesn't give you much time to snoop through Jake's things."
 * Finally: when Bashir began to notice the dissimilarities between his 'real' quarters and Section 31's holographic version of his quarters following his questioning with Sloan, in, he told Miles, when asked how he was, Bashir stated, "I'm fine. Except I think someone's been snooping around my quarters."
 * They all certainly have their merits per context for inclusion. --Alan 01:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see that as merit for inclusion of the article. It still would be little more than a dictionary entry, and a list of times the word was used. What next, are we going to do the same for every use of the word "stool"? --OuroborosCobra talk 01:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with Cobra on this. This word is nothing more than a commonly used verb, and we'd be opening the door to pages for other frequently heard verbs, like "energize" and "engage." - Bridge 01:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, in all fairness, I just want to make sure all the cards are on the table before anyone makes any snap judgments based on a stubbed, out of context definition written in the article on a term that was actually covered in several lines of conversation. Regardless, the above references exemplify several aspects of the "human behavior" that Data defined as "snoop"ing, 1) guilt, 2) curiosity, 3) deception, and, 4) Dax's humorous twist on parenting. --Alan 01:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * RE: Comments above... "it seems to me to be a simple dictionary definition, which as we know Memory Alpha is not." There are several aspects of that rationalization that need to be put to rest:


 * Regarding the whole, "MA is not a dictionary..." that isn't actually what that bullet point states. It states that:
 * "Memory Alpha articles are not simple dictionary-type definitions''..."


 * True, it was a dictionary-type definition, but with the simple inclusion of the relevant context, it no longer is. The context in which an article is written makes a big difference in whether or not it qualifies under that bullet point, especially when comparing an example that explains the term (as in this case), versus something along the lines of "Data once defined the term "snoop". Period." Just from the added context from that one episode alone, the article is already beyond the above stated qualifications, and the suggestions I included above would only further expand upon the idea.


 * "Except for those articles that have barely any information about them available, Memory Alpha articles should be written like an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. And such short articles that include only one or two sentences should probably go in a different, larger page if possible."


 * Well again, I've provided that there is sufficient information available for this article, which actually expands on some of Data's synonyms, with the inclusion of cited example(s) in an encyclopedic format which has the potential to go well beyond one or two sentences.


 * And..."as the mere fact that Data knows a definition is not significant given he is an android"
 * He didn't know the definition and had to access it, and they actually go to some lengths to acknowledge that.


 * Also... "are we going to do the same for every use of the word "stool".
 * Actually, there were a number of references to stool that would make for a valid article, including: the station regulation mention, which I believe somehow tied in with how the bar stools at Quark's weren't supposed to swivel and were supposed to have back supports. And then the one where the station personnel took turns keeping Morn's stool occupied following his funeral, and, of course, the time Morn swung a stool at someone. There are always possibilities. Anyway, just some food for thought. :) --Alan 05:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But if he accessed the definition, doesn't that mean he knew it, it just wasn't foremost in his mind?--31dot 12:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Alright I created this page yesterday and think that the part about Data should be moved to Memorable Quotes. The page should be deleted. Like everybody says where will it stop? --Tribble 1771561 12:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the points Alan made, this page is not against our policies so I see no reason why we're still calling for its deletion. Are we willing to rewrite the policy and delete pages like emotion, jealousy, empathy, death, etc.? Then again, those are actual capabilities while snoop is a just a term. Hmm... I don't know. If it stays, fine, if it goes, then we might to reword the policy slightly. --From Andoria with Love 13:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Those all have characteristics that have made the unique within Trek, such as empathy and Troi, death with Spock and Neelix and many others. The same is not true of simply having the word "snoop" show up in a sentence every so often, but in nothing more than its standard dictionary use as a term. --OuroborosCobra talk 13:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been thinking and I have come up with the following:


 * I recant my above statement
 * To make it sound less like a dictionary, maybe it should sound something like: "Snoop was a word in the English language which Lt. Cmdr Data did not know before 2364." This way it doesn't sound like it is just being defined. It gives it more relevance.
 * Why don't we make a new category of plot words? They would be words that are in the plot (like Snoop), but not every time the word is said would it have to be put in, but only when it is discussed.

Anyway, just some suggestions. --Tribble 1771561 13:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Admin resolution

 * As per the deletion discussion above... Deleted, but leaving the possibility open to revisit this under a better circumstance. -- Sulfur 13:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)