Talk:Horatio Nelson

Do we have a hard reference for this or is it just hearsay? Without a hard reference I'm not sure this belongs on MA. Logan 5 18:52, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Roddenberry's original pitch, "Star Trek is...", cited Hornblower as a model for the ship's Captain. Since a few other MA articles (USS Horatio, USS Sutherland, Horatio Nelson) already mention the character, I thought a new article fleshing out the reference was appropriate. AureliusKirk 19:15, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the Hornblower description was related to Robert April, or not? --Memory 19:18, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Specifically, yes, and I just made the correction. Though the name later changed, Roddenberry was referring to the lead character of his new television program. AureliusKirk 19:33, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think there's enough . We have Br'er Rabbit, which was canonically referenced directly, and Nicole Janeway as a redirect to Kathryn Janeway because that was going to be canon, but this seems like too loose a connection for me. Weyoun 19:50, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm on the fence. It is mentioned directly in the pitch by Roddenberry, but we didn't enter all the other worlds that were mentioned and never used.  Those seem more apporpriate than this.  If anything I think this belongs on the Star Trek is... page but with a link to Wikipedia,  not its own MA article.  Logan 5 20:28, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Ok, perhaps I'm too familiar with the material. I heard Roddenberry repeat the 'Hornblower in Space' meme at an appearance at the LA Musem of Televsion & Radio in the 80's. The link/relevance screams itself to me. If canon established the HMS Lydia and USS Enterprise in the same universe (like Holmes and Spock), I wouldn't raise an eyebrow. I can't defend this more without repeating myself, so I'll just recommend a "Roddenberry+Hornblower" google search to illustrate my point. Now I'll back off and let more experienced MA'ers dispose of the article. AureliusKirk 21:02, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * My thinking is along the lines of Logan's, but while I lean toward merging it with the other article, it seems more informative this way... So I think maybe we should keep it, if for no other reason then to avoid another Lucille Ball-type discussion. But I do want to thank Aurelius for your reaction, instead of getting rather... well... overly enthusiastic as some newcomers would. --Vedek Dukat Talk 21:44, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to aggravate the issue, but I just remembered a non-canon reference from a Star Trek novel, and included it in the article. Perhaps it's worthy of inclusion, perhaps not. AureliusKirk 18:49, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Another shot taken
I've rewritten this article and included another citation from Nick Meyer's Wrath of Khan commentary. Hopefully, that pna-cite will be reconsidered and this black mark on my personal honor can be redeemed. ;) Aurelius Kirk 09:00, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * As I explained on your talk page, Aurelius, it still needs an in-universe citation (reference within an episode of film) before the pna can be removed. --From Andoria with Love 09:45, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Understood. I'll work what's apropriate into Horatio Nelson's background and disperse bits into other articles where useful. Then I'll look up how to delete this page! Thanks for everybody's advice. I hope I haven't been too annoying about this. Aurelius Kirk 10:31, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)


 * Still needs links to USS Agamemnon, USS Victory and USS Sutherland to make it more valid. Apart from that, this article is already better than the original two articles.  Well done, Shran!  Zsingaya  Talk 11:13, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I've recomposed the article for relevance and focus. I hope it works for everybody. This has been a good wiki-education for me. Thanks again. Aurelius Kirk 16:22, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Horatio Hornblower was seen in Trek proof
I dug out some screencaps of PADDs I've made and found one of Jake Sisko reading/writing on a PADD from. I took the screenshot with my old version of PowerDVD, so the quality is not the best, but I borrowed DS9 Season 4 to a friend so I cannot take a new better screenshot at the moment (maybe someone else can?), so here`s the rather crappy image. You can read parts of the text however, and this is definitely an excerpt from one of the Hornblower books. What I can make out:



first paragraph:


 * Obviously this was meant for Hornblower and he took off his hat and stood XXX

second paragraph:


 * "Your ladyship," he began, "Sir Horatio. Welcome to the XXXX

fourth paragraph:


 * These disorderly thoughts of Hornblowers were suddenly broken XXXX

If someone can make a better screencap or find out, from which Hornblower novel this excerpt was taken, we should after all be able to create a Horatio Hornblower article and separate it from the Horatio Nelson one.


 * Update: With the help of a friend who has read all the Hornblower novels (in German..., Thanks Jan!) and amazon.com´s "Search Inside This Book"-feature, I was able to identify the book this excerpt was taken from and reconstruct the whole text.
 * The text on Jake`s PADD is from the book The Commodore or Commodore Hornblower, from the first part of the book (pages 10+11 in the current edition). The text goes as follows:


 * Obviously this was meant for Hornblower, and he took off his hat and stood awkwardly;
 * the tune meant nothing to his tone-deaf ear, but he could distinguish some of the words. The
 * chorus came to a ragged end, and the parson took a step forward.


 * "Your ladyship," he began, "Sir Horatio. Welcome in the name of the village. Welcome,
 * Sir Horatio, with all the glory you have won in the war against the Corsican tyrant.
 * Welcome, your ladyship, wife of the hero commanding our valiant army now in Spain
 * daughter of the highest nobility in the land! Welcome –"


 * The parson took the interruption without flinching; already well in his stride he continued
 * to mouth out his sentences, telling of the joy the village of Smallbridge felt at finding itself in
 * the ownership of a famous sailor. Hornblower was distracted from the discourse by the
 * necessity of holding on tight to the babies hand - if the xxx once got loose he evidently would
 * go down on all fours and throw himself down the steps to make a closer acquaintance with
 * the village children.


 * These disorderly thoughts of Hornblower's were suddenly broken into. Something had been
 * said which should not have been said, and as the parson was the only person speaking, he
 * must have said it, although he was still droning along in obvious ignorance of any blunder.
 * Hornblower stole a glance at Barbara; her white teeth showed for a moment against her lower
 * lip, clear proof of her vexation to anyone who knew her well. Otherwise she was exhibiting
 * the stoical calm of the British upper classes.

Now, I think it would be best if someone with a little more knowledge about Horatio Hornblower than myself would take this excerpt and the pieces on the Horatio Nelson page and rewrite a new Horatio Hornblower page, to do the Commodore some justice. ;-) --Jörg 23:14, 12 February 2006 (UTC)