Talk:Klingonese

translations?
I have my own Klingon Translation on my site, and it appears to conflict with this page, I attribute Tok as "yes". The last line in the first Klingon scene says "Tok, Jaq Wi'" which translates as "Yes, my lord" the only time Yes is used but "Jaq Wi'" is suppose to be "My Lord" from my understanding of the language. Also the page I include also translates several Klingon numbers, I even cite its source should this be added to MA? (removed becuase of spam filter) --TOSrules 19:15, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * The Klingon you give is transcribed from the shows, whereas the information on the page is largely taken from Marc Okrand's The Klingon Dictionary, which is the only truly in-depth systematic treatment we have of any Klingon language. The word you cite for "my lord" is probably a poorly pronounced joHwI' "my lord". thefamouseccles 23:29, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * NO, that line is from Star Trek III the movie that gave birth to the Klingon Language --TOSrules 23:16, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Maltz says luq, joHwI' (ok, my lord) after Kruge says HIje' (Feed him!). luq or lu' mean "yes, ok, I will do it". There is no k in tlhIngan Hol, so there is no word tok. --Qurgh 19:13, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Star Trek: The Motion Picture is actually the movie that gave birth to the Klingon language; as the captain of the IKS Amar, James Doohan made up a bunch of gibberish words to represent Klingonese, and Marc Okrand expanded it into a full language.

Source for HISlaH, HIja'
Before adding "HISlaH, HIja'" back you should have stated your source for it here. --TOSrules 00:11, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * HISlaH is spoken by Valkris in Star Trek III. --Qurgh 19:11, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

PNA

 * pna-inaccurate: There is a lot of information here that I am rather certain did not come from any episodes, and seem not to be cited, especially the words used and the phonetics. Additionally, we have paged like BaH that contain words separate of this page. Should it not be redirected to this page, rather than scattered randomly, as well as listed in a table here? --Alan del Beccio 23:57, 26 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Sound file
On this sound file I have designated the lines as, Lines A18 and line A19 from Star Trek 3 (removed becuase of spam filter) the file contains two lines, the caption states the first one "Yeh Jet" is "feed him" and the second one, "Toq, Jah we" is "Yes, my lord".

This page concretes on Okuda's use of Klingon Phonics, my translations on the other hand uses English phonics because the reader is from Earth usually speaking English so I see no point in using Klingon phonics. I believe this to be the source of confusion here. but I think English phonics should be taken into account on the Memory Alpha site since it is an English website. I have every line of Klingon from TOS movies for download if needed. --TOSrules 23:23, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * However, there are several different interpretations to English phonetics, not only within the US but outside as well. At least the Klingon ones should be nonvariant across accents. --Nineworlds 00:12, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

it should still give an English account how to pronounce the words. Or else they have to look at the phonetic conversion and back down at the word to figure it out. As a translation page it is rather useless. --TOSrules 00:16, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

The phrases are HIje' (Feed him! HI- imperative you-him/her/it, je' to feed (someone else)) and luq, joHwI' (ok (I'll do it) my lord). The system used by Okrand in the Klingon Dictionary is an English phonetic guide. The pIqaD (Klingon writing system that Okuda uses) does not have canon rules of usage. --Qurgh 19:17, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

The language
All of the information on the language on this page comes from The Kllingon Dictionary.

The Klingon dictionary was written by the same guy; Marc Okrand, who wrote all the klingon dialogue for the films, and , Based on the dialogue from , originally written by James Doohan.

As the Klingon language, and indeed dictionary were commissioned by Paramount and the language is owned and copyrighted by Paramount, the language is canon, thus the information on the page is canon.

Finally TOSrules, while your webpage is quite interesting (indeed it's quite nice), it is technically inaccurate in several key areas, drawing from either inaccuarate or outirght noncanon sources.
 * The vocab issue probably arises from a misconseption and mishearing of the dialogue from the films. Although this is interesting in istelf as it demostrates the misunderstandings that lead to mispronunciation of foreign words due to one language lacking the phonemes of another.

I can find no evidence for the existance of the word tok, indeed all I found was the phrase luq joHwI - "yes I will/OK, my lord!"'' A phrase that comes from Star Trek III.

The baH issue, I agree it should be mentioned on this page, and that BaH, shoud redirect to this page.

I believe my information to be correct, accurate and most importnatly canon.

Runic code


 * The word Yes appears as the caption for that phrase you bring up. It sounded like "tok" to me. As for the finer points of translation, I do not personally understand them, I just try my best to translate what i can. I use English phonics, because that is the best way for someone else to learn the word. The Klingon Translation is a bit lacking, but that is because of Okada's book. Someday, I wish to compare his translations with mine, as a guide to better my Vulcan Translations. --TOSrules 06:27, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * PS I am glad you liked my site


 * The word yes appears in the translation because that's what an English speaker would say. Klingon is NOT English. It doesn't follow English grammar rules. The word is luq which means "ok, yes, I'll do it". The Klingon word luq is more restrictive in it's usage than the English word yes. --Qurgh 19:25, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

"Klingon dictionary" is not a valid resource
I agree with some of the comments made above. The "Klingon dictionary" is not a valid resource as defined by our canon policy, and the information based solely on that book has to be removed from the article. Someone with a better knowledge of that topic might want to do this, but if no one cares I'll give it a try later... -- Cid Highwind 15:52, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd just like to add a sub-comment -- some of the spellings from the Klingon dictionary may come to valid use for words used in the actual episodes or movies, or at least valid redirects to link to terms used in the episodes or movies (but only for Klingon language material used in episodes or movies) -- this could aid in searching -- however, i've done some reading on KLI (Klingon Language Institute)'s website -- they and Marc Okrand frowns on his publication being reproduced online without permission. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:37, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * To sub-comment your sub-comment, what about all the articles that are based on Klingonese words? Shouldn't a number of these be redirected and referenced on this page. I think the same goes for the Vulcan language, such as many of the words used in . I realize that some are not necessarily translatable or are, in themselves, usable terminology, but what about, BaH or Kroykah? --Alan del Beccio 17:10, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, some mottos and phrases, and proper nouns will maintain separate pages -- its those i refer to -- simple grammar and short phrases should be handled as you suggest -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 17:15, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Well I have nothing against using the Klingon Dictionary, since it is written by the guy who made the language work, but it should only be used in connection with words heard on screen, and an English pronunciation should be provided. Also I plan on making a Language Databanks website eventually, I'll be adding links to there from when it is done, it will contain every phrase heard, and a sound file of that phrase. Our page should only include pronunciations heard on screen. --TOSrules 23:15, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)

The Klingon dictionary IS a valid resource. It's a compilation of all the words heard in the Movies. Okrand has already done all the work for you. He created the language and everything said onscreen in the movies can be found in the dictionary. When Star Trek V and IV were made Okrand used the dictionary as a reference for them. What you see on screen is based on the book, so excluding it would be like excluding a script as a valid source. --Qurgh 19:23, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Klingonese to Klingon language
Personally, I find the name "Klingonese" to be fairly stupid sounding. As an improvement, I think that this should be moved to Klingon language. That sounds more official and is still the same thing. Comments? -Platypus Man | Talk 01:09, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * The fact that you don't like the name doesn't change the fact that it's the name used on Star Trek. I find having "Klingon language" in bold equally stupid sounding, considering that's... not the name of it. 193.251.169.170 05:04, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Klingonese isn't on quite the same level as Dominionese in that it was referenced as "Klingonese" by a 'Klingon in :
 * Korax: Of course I'd say that Captain Kirk deserves his ship. We like the Enterprise; we--we really do. That sagging, old rust bucket is designed like a garbage scow. Half the quadrant knows it. That's why they're learning to speak Klingonese.
 * So the Klingons themselves called it Klingonese or at least that is the way it is translated by the universal translator. I don't know if it was ever referenced as "Klingonese" again, but the point still stands that it is a perfectly canonical name, and the only name given to the Klingon language (was tlhIngan Hol ever stated onscreen?).--Tim Thomason 05:36, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * The term Klingonese was also used in :
 * Quark: Having to learn all of this Klingonese is not helping my performance.

And tlhIngan Hol most likely does not come from any on screen source. In fact, I think all such references need to be removed from the article and limit it to only canon sources and only use the Klingon dictionary as a last resort. --Alan del Beccio 05:50, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * OK then, keep it. When I said this, I was unaware that anyone had ever said it onscreen, making the name non-canon. However, you have set me straight. I still think it sounds stupid, but the name can stay as Klingonese, although I'd still prefer the article moved to Klingon language. Even if Klingonese is valid, it is still not as official sounding as Klingon language. -Platypus Man | Talk 11:45, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) (Edited 04:49, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC))


 * I would like to reopen this discussion, becuase I don't think that it has been recieving the proper attention. There were only two times the Klingon Language has been referred to as "Klingonese", and a much larger number of times it has been referred to simply as "Klingon". I can remember Worf saying with surprise "You speak Klingon." on several occasions, and many others have done so too during the course of the different series. Especially in those situations, when the language itself was the topic at hand, it has been referred to as "Klingon" and not "Klingonese". So I suggest that Klingonese be moved to Klingon Language or Klingon language. I would welcome a discussion on the topic to prove either point. – Mütze 16:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Seeing as one redirects to the other anyways, does it really matter? I don't think so...


 * I prefer Klingonese because it is a simpler link to write. -- Captain M.K.B. 16:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If the redirects stay intact, the Klingonese-link will be a redirect, and therefor still avaliable. As a geek among geeks (Do I anger people by saying that out loud on the Star Trek Wiki?) I think the *right* title should be the title used here, and for the above stated arguments, I think that Klingon Language and Klingon language capture the apparent intended meaning of the Trek Writers better thatn Klingonese. Just my two cents, and I am okay with every single person on this planet who doesn't care either way. Having found a spontaneous interest in the subject however, I do care. — Mütze 16:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Plat. Klingoneese sounds way to earth-like and is sterotypical for one who is uneducated about the Star Trek universe. I only know a few insults in Klingon, but for me, and those who care about the Klingons, it will always be, the Klingon Language, or Klingon. Your mothers all have smooth foreheads.--CaptainCaca 22:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * When you get down to it, the only clear instance of anyone in any of the films or tv series saying "klingonese" is in a disparaging comment by Quark. Everyone else, time and time again, clearly refers to it as simply "Klingon" except for Korax, who calls it "Klingoni" in what seems to be a slightly botched line.68.151.216.165 19:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Korax refered to it as Klingoneese. If I remember correctly, this was the first reference to the Klingon language in the franchise. It may very well be slang for the Klingons. Which would be why Quark used it and Worf does not, but I do not thing it should be changed because people think it is stupid.

The terms "Klignonese" and "Klingon language" have subtle differences in English. A word ending with -ese means "of said place", for example Japanese refers to the language, but also refers to things that come from Japan (Japanese food, Japanese people). If you wish to refer to specifically the language, then you should use the word (Japanese Language). Klingonese refers to things of Klingon origin (including the language), Klingonese food (food from the Klingon people) for example. The "official name" is tlhIngan Hol, which simply means "Language of the Klingons" (tlhIngan = Klingon, Hol = Language). If you wish to be accurate, then Klingon Language should be used when referring to specifically the language. --Qurgh 19:03, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Klingonese Policy Issue
There has been a bit of a scuff here on what our policy should be concerning this page. I think it is time for us to bring together various opinions. I think this problem centers around the Klingon-English Dictionary. What is it's place on MA, the reason it is given weight is because it was used to make the continuity of the language in the movies, and used in any other instances for speaking Klingon.

So what is it's place here, MA has to purely relay on onscreen evidence. Books don't count, but this case the book is the common point of ref for the language. So here is what I propose, this article needs to be changed to relay on only Onscreen evidence, the Klingon Dictionary should be used only as a reference for what is heard on screen.

Here is what I see should happen here, Gvsualan is right, "known as tlhIngan Hol in its native translation" should be removed as that was never said on screen. I have no idea about the next paragraph because it uses Enterprise, I have seen very few episodes of that. Regarding "Sounds" except for the first sentence this is all non cannon. "Basic Phrases" is better because it relays on words, but we have to get rid of the words never heard on screen, if any. Now I wonder, should we remove phases that are derived? Should we only use phrases spoken in movies or episodes?

I believe we should split the chart into 4 cells instead of 2, First cell should be "English", the second "Klingonese (Klingon Phonics) this would be taken from the dictionary, then 'Klingon (English Phonics), and number 4 would be "Source" which would say where the word or phrase comes from. This is how I feel about the article, sorry for writing a book on the subject. --TOSrules 07:38, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * I created a temporary page that contains only canon info. It needs to be expanded. I used three cells instead of two, with the Klingon word, English word, and Source. If you want to include Klingon Phonics and English Phonics go ahead, I just don't know how much canon info there is. I didn't include Klingon proper names (such as people, ships, planets, or stars), because they are too numerouse (I made a list of all I could find and have found over 230). Some names that have been used twice or more (off the top of my head) include:
 * Amar
 * Duras
 * Fek'lhr
 * Gorkon
 * K'Kath
 * K't'inga
 * Kahless
 * Kang
 * Klag
 * Klothos
 * Koloth
 * Korok
 * Krell
 * Miral
 * Negh'Var
 * Pagh
 * Qo'noS
 * Qu'Vat
 * Somraw
 * Toral
 * Vagh
 * Worf
 * I don't know if anyone wants to use that or not.--Tim Thomason 22:44, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Klingon canon
I've had a look at this talk article, and I concede, the informtion on the page isn't canon in the strictest sense. As such the page should be modified accordingly.


 * I would say though it's worth mentioning that for a non-canon book, it has repeatedly been used by the program producers and writers in creating new dialogue, some of which follows the grammar perfectly, so a reference to the reference has to be in order, probably under the subheading Background.

Tim, I've had a look at your temporary page Klingonese/temp, and the main page should probably be modified to reflect that. The page itself is quite good. I do feel however, that some dialogues from the films... ...should be added.

The only problem with this is what spelling to use? The spelling used in the klingon dictionary or a phonetic spelling based on what was heard, or even official transcripts from the scripts of said films if available???

And as far as the names are concerned, there's already a list of Klingon "people" names in the list of Klingons page. In fact, there's also a list of Klingon starships with their names as well. Runic code


 * The Klingon spelling as shown in the Dictionary should be used. That was what was written in the script. The system used by Okrand is a phonetic spelling. Just because an actor mispronounces something doesn't mean it should be changed. If an actor pronounced Spock as Spack accidentally we wouldn't change every reference, we simply chock it up to Human error. --Qurgh 19:31, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Canonicity suggestion
Why not do it like Ferengi language, where the stuff is listed by episode, so that way if something's not canon, some fan who has every script memorized can go, "Nope, that's wrong!" Weyoun 03:57, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand how the Klingon dictionary can't be canon. It is;
 * Written by Marc Okrand, the inventor of the language.
 * The basis for dialog in many scripts, a resource fo the writers.
 * Fairly consistant with filmed movies and episodes.

Any deviation in filmed dialog is typically attributed to the character speaking another dialect of Klingon, as that was how the language was structured to accomodate. And is often added to canon, without subtracting contradictary information.--Mike Nobody 04:21, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Canon is only something brought up on screen. Okrand can be used to make sure you do it right, but for the sake of canon only words and phrases used on screen should be part of the Klingonese page. --TOSrules 06:53, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Oh, yeah, tell that to some of these guys. Interpretation of what is or isn't canon seems to be loosely arbitrary on M/A.--Mike Nobody 07:02, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Canon is only something brought up on screen.


 * I agree with you about it being canon, I was only trying to figure out what works for MA. But how much of the dictionary are you planning to transcribe? I don't think we should put the entire book on here. Weyoun 04:24, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)


 * Although the Ferengi section includes the episode sources, Ferengi dialog is hardly commonly used. The Klingonese page is structured very well, I thought. Maybe another column could be added, citing the source. as well as alphebetizing the Klingon phrases.--Mike Nobody 05:00, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Removed "Basic phrases"
This was copied from The Klingon Dictionary -- none should be added back into the article without being cited to a canon episode. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 07:24, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)


 * ''Below is a short of of some usefull basic phrases in the tlhIngan Hol dialect, the most commonly heard dialect used in the empire.

what about petaQ? It is a Klingon word used quite often in Star Trek, and yet I could find only one fleeting mention of it in all of memory alpha. --68.198.246.166 03:01, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

petaQ will probably end up like Self-Sealing Stem Bolts, we'll never know the details (and is probably intentionally left that way, sort of how we never see Mourn speaking, but we often hear about it). Zirka 18:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually it is petaH,with the upper uvular fricative,but lacking the aspirative component of the "Q",and it has been seen by some to be a Klingon form of "monkeyboy" pithecine Wejvagh 08:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually it's not. It's petaQ with a Q, look on page 179, Section 5.5 of the Klingon Dictionary Second Edition (white cover). You may be thinking of toDSaH, which does end with a H. --Qurgh 19:36, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Reversion
I rolled back the recent editing of all the words to their phonetic tlhIngan Hol spellings. That's nice for the background section that goes into detail on Okrand's stuff, but we should use the script/television spellings for the canon part of the article, in my opinion.--Tim Thomason 02:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The scripts had the spellings as they are written in the Klingon Dictionary. Using the phonetic writing system as created by Okrand is correct. --Qurgh 19:37, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Klingonii
I don't think "Klingonii" is correct. Most of the online pages link to "Klingonese," it's referred to as "Klingonese" in, and I can find only one online script that refers to "Klingoni," but it's a Czech page translated. I think this should be moved as soon as possible, as there are a whole bunch of double redirects right now.--Tim Thomason 05:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have moved it back for the time being, as major moves like this one need to be discussed first. As you said, the move creates a ton of double redirects, so not only does this need to be discussed, but those redirects need to be changed before this page is moved. --From Andoria with Love 06:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The Czech site is the same one I use, I'm pretty sure. It's an accurate transcript, as I use that site to double check dialogue from my DVDs.  Either way, "Klingonii" is CLEARLY stated on screen in the scene in question, and therefore is the proper canon title of the page.Capt Christopher Donovan 07:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Now that everything has been moved back and no reference to "Klingonii" can be found on the page, do I have to guess which episode you are all talking about? Come on, give me a little hint, I don't feel like looking through page histories for that. -- Cid Highwind 10:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As best I can guess, Trouble with Tribbles. That's from the history on the recent changes page.  I think. -- Sulfur 10:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Korax used the term in when he was taunting Scotty: "That's why half the quadrant is learning to speak Klingonii!" (I've long since lost my copy of Gerrold's book, but perhaps someone with access to a copy could consult the script contained in it.) --GNDN 10:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC) I've seen a version of the book, and the word is "Klingonese". --GNDN 23:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, OK. I now found it in the transcript. Some points: -- Cid Highwind 11:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) If that was mentioned on-screen, it should of course link to some page talking about the Klingon language. It doesn't have to be the title, though - if "Klingonese" was also used to refer to that, one has to be a redirect to the other, anyway.
 * 2) The transcript uses "Klingoni", not "Klingonii".
 * 3) The transcript is... a transcript. Some people writing down what they hear. Transcripts (other than scripts) shouldn't be used to determine accurate spelling.
 * 4) So... Use Klingonese as the article title, and use the other title for a redirect to that.


 * Since "Klingoni" (two i-s is a typo on my part, sorry) is the FIRST mention of the name of the Klingon langage (and yes, the transcript is only a typing of what is SAID, and I've listened to that line multiple times to cooborate it), then IMO it is the canon name for the Klingon language, and deserves "pride of place" over later revisions or "shortcuttings". "Klingonese" is a fandom word, and isn't even used in episodes or movies, who simply tend to use "Klingon".  ("You've never experienced Shakespeare until you've read him in the original Klingon."  "Damage control, that's easy...reading Kligon, that's hard..." etc)Capt Christopher Donovan 20:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As Tim pointed out, however, (both the script and dialogue) refers to it as "Klingonese". --From Andoria with Love 20:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I too would prefer an actual spelling of this over a "what it sounds like" or "transcrpit". Donovan, you said you had the DVD, right? Turn on Closed Captioning, see how it is spelled. I'm still not sure this should be moved just yet (although I am leaning towards that), but at the very least TTWT reference deserves a redirect, if not the article name. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * CC isn't necessarily an authoritative source, either. Sometimes the captions are taken from scripts, and other times they're transcripts of the spoken dialogue themselves, no different from any other transcript and subject to the same errors as any other. -- Renegade54 21:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I just checked Google. About 10,000+ results for "Klingonese", 66 for "Klingoni" and 9 for "Klingonii". If both terms were definitely used on-screen, we should perhaps go with the one that is used more often, and make the other one a redirect. -- Cid Highwind 21:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

In the final draft of the script for "The Trouble with Tribbles", Korax specifically said "Klingonese". Klingoni(i) is clearly someone's misinterpretation of Korax's half-drunken pronunciation of the word. --Alan del Beccio 07:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, Gvsualan, but I was reluctant to say so earlier, as I did not have a script before me (although your assertion statement confirms my recollection). That said, Michael Pataki's reading of the line --at least as recorded on the released versions of TTWT-- sounds like "Klingoni", so I am in favor of, at least, a redirect from Klingoni on that basis. --GNDN 08:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If "KlingonESE" is from the actual script (which I do not have access to), then I will accept it as authoritative. But it sure as heck SOUNDS like the spoken word is "KlingonI"...anyways, sorry for the mini-sh*t storm...Capt Christopher Donovan 10:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

"Some fans assert that Michael Pataki actually said "Klingoni" in "The Trouble with Tribbles," but this conflicts with the script and the Star Trek Encyclopedia." Some fans assert that Kirk was referring to a starship  in, but that doesn't mean we are keeping a redirect around for it, or making special circumstance for it just to keep the link valid on this site... --Alan del Beccio 00:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever, then. The redirect wasn't really my idea, but apparently GNDN and Capt Christopher Donovan (and maybe that Czech transcript guy) hear the word "Klingonii" in the episode (I heard "KlingonEEse" the two times I listened), so it may be common. I support deletion of a redirect (in other words, I oppose the redirect) from Klingoni(i), although I think the info on the assertion of Klingoni helps make up for any more "mishearing" of Pataki's long E.--Tim Thomason 01:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I heard what I heard, but even so, it would not be the first time an actor botched idiosyncraticaly read an "alien" word (Bendii Syndrome, Mount Seleya and Kolinahr come to mind); my real --but unstated-- reason for supporting the redirect was the number of Google hits referenced above. That said, I am neutral on this issue as Klingoni (or Kligonese, if you prefer), is not my forte. --GNDN 04:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * He clearly does say "Klingoni" in this instance. Whether the actor was misspoke or not doesn't seem relevant. The finished episodes/films are often different from the script in numerous instances - in 99% of cases here on M/A it's the finished, filmed episode/film that counts, not the script when it's different. When you get down to it the only instance in any of the films or tv series' where anyone clearly says "Klingonese" is a mocking remark by quark.68.151.216.165 19:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Does the Klingon Dictionary include the special alphabet?
If so, I think a section (or maybe even a seperate article) should be added for the alphabet. Will (Talk - contribs) 06:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * What is this "special alphabet" you refer to? The Klingon dictionary uses the English phonetic alphabet: a, b, ch, D, e, gh, H, I, j, l, m, n, ng, o, p, q, Q, r, S, t, tlh, u, v, w, y, '. If you are referring to pIqaD (the Klingon writing system that Okuda made) then we have no rules for how to use that writing system. --Qurgh 19:42, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds -- tlh
I believe tlh would be more like kl than the tlle in bottle, seeing as Klingon is spelled with a tlh at the beginning.. But I thought I'd ask first before editing the article to say so Trelane 05:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that sound table is based Marc Okrand's Klingon dictionary, so it shouldn't be edited for that reason. I'm not sure why Okrand got rid of all the Klingon k's, but I guess a guttural "t" sounds kinda like a k.--Tim Thomason 06:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If I'm not mistaken the dictionary isn't quite canon... There are no Ks in the Klingon language, if you're going by the alphabet that all the fans made up. Just Q and q and tlh I guess.. I'm not sure there's any reference to this on the show though so no real way to find out.Trelane 06:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just want to add that most of the Movie-era and TNG+ Klingons (Worf being a notable exception) appear to have false teeth in their mouths. Thus the tlk sound does sound somewhat like kl (try it yourself with some novelty fake teeth). However, when humans attempt to imitate that sound, they tend to go more with a tl. Listen to some of the things Hoshi says, for example.
 * Commodore Sixty-Four(talk) 00:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * tlh is the same as the tl in tetl, the Aztec word for Egg. It is not a guttural sound. The q in tlhIngan Hol is the same as the English k. --Qurgh 19:04, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:petaQ
The correct transliteration is petaH,not petaQ. Wejvagh 01:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's okay, this page should probably be part of the Klingonese page anyway. --Alan del Beccio 01:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Just checked the Dictionary,petaQ is correct. Wejvagh 06:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If you find a way to include petaQ in the Klingonese article and still keep all the "petaQ" references and contexts when the word was uttered, a merge is okay. Otherwise, I'd hate to loose all this information, as the current petaQ entry on the Klingonese page only mentions the first time the word was uttered. --Jörg 16:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. I think we can give petaQ its own section on the Klingonese article, given how frequently it is used. --From Andoria with Love 06:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I am unsure about a merge. When I take a look at the klingonese page there are more 'little known words' with their own very smal pages such as, Adanji, Gik'tal and D'akturak. Should these also not be merged with Klingonese ? If not, then I don't see why PetaQ could not have its own page. -- Q 21:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Those are all not only Klingonese vocabulary, but also other things like ceremonies, substances or nicknames. This is nothing more than a "colorful metaphor" (a nice one though, as Rosario Dawson exemplifies |1). Kennelly 21:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I also agree with a merge as long as we keep all the info. :) I have a semi-related question on this, should we decide on a preferred spelling of the word and change all the references to match since there are so many alternate spellings?  Or do we want to leave them as they are and use redirects for the alternate spellings?  I know I first came across this article adding a quote from  and the subtitles had it spelled pahtk. --Maestro4k 13:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the only Klingon who didn't have fake teeth was B'Elanna, because she was half-human. Her pronounciation of Kligon thesefore sounds human, though the issue of tlh verus kl didn't come up durring Voyager.

Data
Of course Data could speak Klingon, but can anyone remember an instance in which he did so (or comprehended the language) in canon? Suck My Wake 21:27, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

"A lot is said without words." - Klingonese word?
On one of the DS9 episodes, Martok and Worf were talking about the hand-to-hand combat with the Jem'Hadar at a penal colony, and toward the end, Martok could tell non-verbally that Worf was ready to give up. He gave us a Klingon term, and said there was no English translation for it, but roughly, it means "much is said without words," meaning that non-verbal nuances, subtle and otherwise, can tell A LOT.

What was the Klingon expression for that? I couldn't find it in the article but either Worf or Martok said it sometime after that Jem'Hadar prison episode. --70.179.191.225 04:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Somebody's GOT TO know. Will you please respond? --70.179.191.225 16:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe it was Tova'dok. Just FYI, the talk page of an article is supposed to only be about the article itself, not questions about the subject.  You may want to use the Reference Desk to ask a question, depending on what it is.--31dot 17:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, this comment belongs here, as its about something that should be in the article.– Cleanse talk 01:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Kligon Translation
I think a Klingonese translation of Memory Alpha would be cool. Mr.gn 20:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There is one, the Klingon Encyclopedia, which is linked on our Main Page. --Alan 20:44, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless I am mistaken, that is a Klingon translation of Wikipedia more than it is one of Memory Alpha. Not that I am suggesting we make a Klingon MA, it would probably be abandoned faster than the Mirror Universe MA. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:15, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Klingon Translation Transposition on other TV show
Thought you might enjoy this, was changing channels: Frasiers son was having his bar mitzvah, Frasier was going to deliver a blessing in hebrew from cue cards, im listening and it was not hebrew..I realize wow thats KLINGON...looked up the episode "Star Mitzvah" Part: Rabbi: What was that gobbledygook? Frasier: Well, it's-it's a blessing for my son, "Pookh Lod Wih Le Koo." Rabbi: That means nothing. It's gibberish. Frasier: What? Jeremy(young boy): That's not gibberish. It's Klingon. Rabbi: What? Frasier: Oh, dear God! Jeremy: Freddie's Dad just blessed him in Klingon. Freddie(Frasiers son): Shut up, (Freddie)Berman. -edit Jeremy: Seriously, your dad's Klingon is really good. Freddie: What did he say? Jeremy: Well, roughly translated, it says, "My dearest son, each day you redeem me. May your journey be filled with the same joy, wisdom, and purpose you have given mine." It's a lot more beautiful in the original Klingon, but it's still really cool.

IDIC1701 19:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Moved from Klingon philosophy
I removed the following from Klingon philosophy:


 * The Klingon mantra and battle-cry is "Today is a good day to die!" It is interesting to note that the Klingon word for success, "Qu'pla," is synonymous with this phrase.  The notion of "Qu'pla" means that the warrior sacrifices everything in order to achieve his objective.  He has no hope of winning, only of dying with Honor.  By fighting from this place of non-attachment, he may yet emerge victorious.  Perhaps then, today is a good day to die!"

If that can be cited, it belongs on this article, not the other. -- Cid Highwind 16:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Jelik
It is already mentioned on the Klingonese page, as a "See also". We don't know what the word means and I think the Klingonese page is a better place for an "unknown phrase". Maybe there are more and we could start a section on the Klingonese page and leave this as a redirect. – Tom 07:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds and Basic phrases
I really think these two sections have no reason for being on this site. If you want to learn more read the book. Just seems overkill and more information than is needed for a background section. &mdash; Morder (talk) 23:08, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree, and would say that the basic phrases is probably the most viewed part of the page. Having that section up makes this page a valuable resource for not only anyone writing books but also anyone watching an episode when no translation is provided. - Archduk3:talk 23:29, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Those 'basic phrases' are just made up from the dictionary or pieced together from episodes. They weren't seen in an episode, aren't canon and if you really want more information read the book. They constitute original research and should be removed for that reason alone. &mdash; Morder (talk) 00:31, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure HIjol was in and the species names were said throughout the series. Since we have a list of episodes where there is spoken klingon, the phrases not spoken could be removed.  Though strictly speaking I'm sure everything after the contents is non-canon, as it comes from the book and the only truly canon words are the ones said, including the "incorrect" words/phrases. - Archduk3:talk 00:47, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

It's still original research. Background info or not it doesn't belong. &mdash; Morder (talk) 01:28, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is move the phrases that were said to the quotes and drop the rest, there really isn't a need for the sounds, that is what you should be buying the book for. - Archduk3:talk 02:03, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

That's fine but you can't call it basic phrases...all you can do is move the individual words to the already existing list. Anything beyond that isn't encyclopedic as nobody in Star Trek had a PADD that said "Here are some basic phrases in Klingon" or anything therefore the "Basic phrases" are non-canon. &mdash; Morder (talk) 02:11, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Somehow I missed it but it was already removed. No clue why it was added back. (See above) &mdash; Morder (talk) 02:13, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's OK, I missed it as well. :) - Archduk3:talk 02:55, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Dutch Klingon Opera
I find it strange that I can't find any mention at all of 'U', The Klingon Opera produced by a Dutch group, in the Klingon language, which has actually toured as a serious opera. MrEvers 08:12, May 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Star Trek references by non-Star Trek groups or shows are found at the relevant Star Trek parodies and pop culture references page. Not sure if that's there or not.--31dot 08:35, May 6, 2011 (UTC)