Talk:T'Pol

Post resignation
Question - After her resignation in does anyone recall her being referred to as "Subcommander" at any point in season three ? She doesn't hold a formal rank with the Vulcan High Command anymore, so why would they address her by title ? Alex Peckover 14:03, Jun 11, 2004 (CEST)
 * I've fixed that in the sidebar... --BlueMars 14:35, Jun 11, 2004 (CEST)
 * She worked for Vulcan Intelligence for a period as well. See Menos and . Rebelstrike2005 14:47, 13 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Answer - The title is honorary. On a military vessel, you refer to any person(s) of present or former military rank by their military rank unless specified to be called something else. The only time this does not happen is if the person is dismised from the military via a dishonorable discharge.

Physical enhancements
T'Pol is a bit unrealistic. Why would Vulcans need collegen injections and breast implants? --Mark 2000 07:20, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That really doesn't have anything to do with an informational article about the character. This isn't a message board. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 09:48, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't you think its relavent that a Vulcan has had cosmetic surgery? What does that say about their logic? --63.201.59.202 16:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The actors are not the characters that they play. Tyrant 17:10, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant

perhaps not entirely in spirit, but certainly in body they are. If B&B picked a crippled person that would have effect on the character. --Mark 2000 16:50, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * If you feel that way in reference to an addition to the Jolene Blalock article, then discuss it there -- but I feel it has no bearing on T'Pol -- this article is about her -- and the talk pages are reserved for commentary about adding or changing information in the articles only -- not for discussing more general topics as a casting critique. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:54, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * In addition, Star Trek and its spinoffs are produced in Hollywood, where a great many actresses have had some kind of cosmetic surgery. Why we should concentrate on Jolene Blalock alleged enhancements, I don't know. It's not relevant, and it's not particularly interesting either, especially on a family friendly website. Alex Peckover 17:04, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So the enhancements themselves are family friendly, but discussing them is not. --Mark 2000 20:51, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Stop!! What part of "This isn't a message board" do you not understand? It is totally irrelavant to M/A and will always be! So take your arguments elsewhere. Thank you. --Gvsualan 20:59, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Removed info
I never watched Enterprise and don't know if this has any basis in fact, but it sounded suspicious: ''However, this turned out to be a very unsettling experience for T'Pol. She was reminded of being in a nightclub called "Fusion," after she snuck out of the Vulcan compound in San Francisco. And she was having intimate relations with Tolaris.'' --Vedek Dukat Talk 02:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * This did happen. Although, the description isn't entirely accurate since the 'intimate relations' were part of a dream. – Vivec 11:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)-
 * Well, a mind meld is an intimate experience for a Vulcan. That's what initiated the "dream." I agree, though, the description could be worded better (assuming it hasn't been in the year and three months since the original comment was posted). --From Andoria with Love 11:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Blatant inaccuracies
Blatant inaccuracies about Trip and T'Pol's relationship, including sequence of events (for example, the editor suggests T'Pol passionately kissed Trip before he left for the Columbia, which isn't correct) and level of feelings (author suggests T'Pol and Trip admitted their love for each other in Harbinger). Discussion now focuses on what was truly accurate without dramatics or hyperbole. --24.21.110.187
 * The joys of wiki are they you can edit a page with inaccuracies and make them correct. Why write about what needs to be changed here instead of just doing the changes in the first place? --Alan del Beccio 08:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure if it needed to be explained since the entire section was redone. I'm new to the area, but I agree. Understand this is a wiki, but if someone documents this is an issue and scrubs it from time to time, the information will be more accurate. -- Spock111 (24.21.110.187)

T'Pol's Age
What is the canon reference to T'Pol age of "65 Earth years" as stated in the article? Roundeyesamurai 09:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of a specific reference to T'Pol's age. I calculated 65 yrs based on the DOB of 2088 referenced in the T'Pol citation (based on ) and on the date reference (2153). Hope this computes (also, I noted this as a comment, which I understood to allow some element of non-canonical speculation - is this a correct assumption? I wasn't exactly sure of how to post the comment, since it is a mixture of speculation and derived information). Also - hope you don't mind, but I would like to change the wording back to "accelerated" from "early-onset", since accelerated conveys both the fact that her pon farr started "early" chronologically and was "sped up" biologically. BTW - I enjoyed the post above regarding Vulcan logic, and I think that you are on to something. It is interesting that such complexities of Vulcan logic would not be so apparent with just TOS canon - many of the later characters seem to reveal the most discrepancies with the idea of pure logic. It is also worth noting how many of the Vulcan characters are afflicted by "medical" conditions that thwart their individual efforts at emotional control (such a Tuvok and T'Pol) - it seems like their bodies/minds are essentially locked in an adversarial relationship with their conscious drive to suppress emotion. This is not unlike the physical symptoms that can arise in a human who is unconsciously repressing traumatic emotions and memories. In a way, many of the Vulcans we see are suffering from a post-traumatic stress disorder (though the trauma simply seems to be living with their own emotional turmoil). --Jim 13:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In, T'Pol stated she would "only be 66 years old" on her next birthday, meaning she was 65 at the time (February 2154). The number 66 was chosen as an homage to the year , when Star Trek: The Original Series first aired. --From Andoria with Love 02:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

POV/Fan spec note

 * Apparently, ANIS Archer did harbor some feelings for T'Pol, but they never manifested themselves, as he devoted himself to the mission. Some believe that Twilight, The Forge, Azati Prime, Awakening and other episodes may point to his continued feelings - where he saves her life - and might also point to her feelings - where she saves his life or attempts to give up her life for his.

I removed the following paragraph for obvious reasons (what the heck does "ANIS" mean, or is that some kind of poor attempt at humor?). --From Andoria with Love 05:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think actually that's a stretch, especially since the words used were "might." I believe the fan noted A Night in Sickbay. --User:24.21.110.187

Question: In terms of trivia, I have not seen anyone mention that the name T'Pol appears in some of the other series, at least in Voyager and TNG. Does anyone have the specifics or access to those episodes? Is there a family relationship to this T'Pol, is the name simply common, or is it just a running joke?
 * First, you need to sign your posts by the four "~" marks. Secondly, you are thinking of T'Pau, not T'Pol. -Italianajt 16:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Discrepancies
"...T'Pol formalized her service in Starfleet and was given the rank of Commander." That would make her a Vulcan in Starfleet. Elsewhere, it's made clear about one hundred times that Spock was the first. --ChrisK 20:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As has been said elsewhere, it is likely that Spock was the first Vulcan in the Federation starfleet. T'Pol is a commander in the Earth starfleet, which is not the same organization. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  20:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Closer inspection also shows that cannologicly, this was never said to be the fact with Spock. It's more or less a fanon fact (One of many that were supposedly 'violated')--Terran Officer 16:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Logically, USS Intrepid (NCC-1631) must've had at least one officer with greater years of service than Spock. One would think that Spock's survival into maturity, but not "old" age in the 24th century means he was fairly young at the time of TOS.  It's a stretch to believe that the captain of Intrepid was younger than Spock. Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  14:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Images
Having obtained the season 3 DVD set, I posted a screencap of Old T'Pol from. Does anybody want the "naked" picture of her from posted? --User:24.168.150.118


 * That could be...odd for a site like MA. I do wonder though if better versions of the pictures that are already up could be submitted?  That is what ever could be done if you only have season 3.--Terran Officer 06:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * i recently tried to improve the images of t'pol on here and got beat down pretty brutally for doing so. some on here are very attached to the promo images. but the images do need work.  good luck if you make an attempt. --Deevolution 07:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Naw, I meant the Episode screen cap pictures. The old T'Pol one is a much higher quality and size IMO, if you have access to the DVD's get one of those for a screenshot, leave the Promo's--Terran Officer 01:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Is the "naked" picture really necessary?? I mean, I don't think it really contributes to the article. Also, I don't remember that scene being THAT explicit when I saw the episode on TV... --Alex Munro 17:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's because if you watched that episode in the US, it was cropped. If you watched it anywhere else in the world, that's what you saw on TV.  Coincidentally, that's also what's shown on the DVD.  In the US and elsewhere. -- Sulfur 17:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The butt photo has been obtained, and was so significant as to have been included twice within the same article. I'm not sure if it's more appropriate within the section about clothing or within the section about romance, but it's not sexier displayed twice. I have elected to remove it from the latter section. – Vivec 11:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Orginal Look


How about a picture put up of T'Pols orginal look? For trivia reasons.--Terran Officer 16:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Original" look? :P Hmm, I think it is a good idea. I believe we have the same thing in the Jadzia Dax article. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  16:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

My spelling is bad, sorry. I don't know how to upload an image at the moment, or I would show it.--Terran Officer 22:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright, there it is... It is large I know, but I do realize that file size wise, it meets the requierments.--Terran Officer 22:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Is this different from the "Breaking the Ice" image? It was before her eyebrows were pointed, although the 2151 image should probably come from the first episode... - AJ Halliwell 00:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

This is actually an image from a deleted scene in Broken Bow. T'Pol was going to have this look, but for some reaason it was decided to change it to the once that she had in seasons 1 & 2. Shame really, this look is nicer.--Terran Officer 04:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * After staring a little longer, notices she has longer hair. Oh! I see now. Well, it should be included in the background maybe -- with a note specifying the longer hair, cause I didn't even notice ;) Also, probably wanna zoom in/crop a little. - AJ Halliwell 05:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I dont know about zooming in, at least not with out disorienting the image. I suppose I could crop it some, whereabouts in background should it be? Before or after the clothing section?--Terran Officer 05:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I had hoped to not pull a Wiki and excessively brighten this image, but it seems it could be needed. I gave it a slightly different name for now for comparison. Which one to use?--Terran Officer 05:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, well, that is way to brightened. I uploaded one that should work fine, unless the alternate hair cuts in any other deleted scenes??? (But maybe not, opinion? I know that brightening is way to ...bright)- AJ Halliwell 05:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

That works. I had brightened to try and make the differences...pop out. Thanks for the help! I think we could use that one.--Terran Officer 06:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed the two other images as they are being posted for deletion. --Alan del Beccio 04:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Protected
This page has been protected due to repeated vandalism. --From Andoria with Love 09:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This page is now protected from anonymous and newly registered users for an indefinite amount of time. The protection can be lifted when an admin feels that enough time has passed... just to let you know, one month wasn't enough. :-P But to at least avoid editing in the near future... there you go. --From Andoria with Love 19:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Obviously the offender is some jackass with nothing to do.– Watching...listening... 02:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Just to let everyone know, though, the protection time was reduced from infinite to one month. --From Andoria with Love 09:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Fashion?
Should there be some reference in the "Clothing" section about T'Pol's fashion sense? I'm not sure if it's discussed anywhere else, but I was just watching "Home". Trip mentions offhandedly to T'Pol at one point that she "...always [was] a snazzy dresser." This seems to be a pretty accurate statement even, especially in fact, by Vulcan standards. I don't know if there's any other canonical mention of her bizarre and seemingly unprecedented fashion sense, but hey, that's what I came to this page looking for. --Magikeye 02:58, 20 November 2007 (UTC)--Magikeye
 * There is already information on her various clothing choices in the background section, which also conveniently offers a reason to show her naked backside. :-D --From Andoria with Love 06:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, but it doesn't really touch on how all those costuming choices reflect the character. I don't know if there are any production notes or anything that touch on this but it is interesting. There's no precedent for Vulcans having much fashion sense and though it was done for ratings i'm curious if there was ever any explanation like in the ST universe. --Magikeye 21:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That bottom does not belong to Jolene Blalock, by the way. It was a body double.– Watching...listening... 22:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you cite that? ;) --From Andoria with Love 19:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoops! Wikipedia says it is not, but I just read an excerpt of an interview with her from Stuff Magazine . It is her bottom. Strange... in when she bends over in her PJs after getting up from Rajiin's attack it looks a lot rounder... *Ahem* Quoting from one of the above posts: That really doesn't have anything to do with an informational article about the character. This isn't a message board. Moving on.:) – Watching...listening... 22:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Eyebrows
Shouldn't there be a paragraph on this in the background section. I do know they changed from human-like to Vulcan-like at some point, but my knowledge ends about there, and I do not have any good references other than my memory. —MJBurrage(T•C) 19:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

current edit
i'm in the process of trying to edit the article, but you know sometimes it's slow going. i wanted to reduce the blow-by-blow itemizing of things she did and create something more akin to a biography. as it was, the article seemed to just list stuff. i also want to expand the relationships stuff, create a section for her experience with v'lar and soval, etc. i just wanted to explain what was going on, in case somebody freaks out about what is currently missing... Deevolution 00:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Romance
Whom ever wrote the section on T'Pol's "Romance" with Jonathan Archer may have been writing with an agenda. T'Pol had no "Romance" in canon with anyone but Charles "Trip" Tucker III. – The Middleman 16:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No romance, sure, but there were definitely feelings... even though they were apparently not returned. I can't speak for whoever wrote the section (unless it was me and I just don't remember, but I don't think I did), but I do see how it could be counted as a "romance," of sorts. Archer was obviously considering the possibility of a romantic relationship with T'Pol in ... or maybe just a booty call. :-P Then in the alternate timeline of, T'Pol obviously has feelings for Archer, only now Archer is in no condition to return those feelings. Not that it matters because that whole timeline is erased, anyway. But, yes, there was some attraction displayed by both at one time (or alternate time) or another. --From Andoria with Love 04:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In they talk to each other.  And he says something like, "There can be tension between two crew-members... specially if they're of the opposite sex..." and they end it with her saying something like, "But of course this tension you speak of, would have to remain that way since it would go against what's best for Enterprise".  I think that's as far as the romance really went.  And considering the fact that she had no problem having relations with an inferior officer, Trip, I guess that was just her letting Archer down easy and saying no to his umm... "booty call" =P  I had high hopes for A/T'Pol, but at best Archer and T'Pol should be under friendship, with a mention of tension.  Other than that they never really did the whole "I must save you because I love you" stint, so any romance is non-canon and objective. – Saphsaph 09:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd remind you that her period of entering "relations" with Trip was after a long time of "closer relationship" through the neuropressure than she ever had with Archer, and that it was while she was under the effect of Trellium-D poisoning. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * True. I always thought Phlox was a little too pushy on that.  "Your crewmate can't sleep, please go give him nightly massages..."  I guess someone with three wives can't fathom the whole once every seven years vulcan thing =)   But yes, either way the Archer/T'Pol relationship didn't ever canonically take place.  Other than Twilight that is.  Even the whole Trip/T'Pol relationship is sketchy to the point of Jolene saying, "They need to either make this a relationship or not".  But at least that one is canon enough. – Saphsaph 21:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think the section in this article implies a romantic relationship actually took place, only that some sort of attraction or romantic feelings did... --OuroborosCobra talk 21:15, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Right now it looks ok, other than the part where it says "It became apparent" that she started harbouring feelings for him in the alternate timeline but couldn't go further with it because he was ill. "apparent" is subjective.  She didn't say she felt an attraction, or that she couldn't go further because he was sick.  The furthest that timeline went towards romance was when she said their relationship had become "more intimate".  For all we know that could mean she began administering vulcan nerve therapy on him... we can't assume anything.  And when he asks how close they have become, the scene changes.  Leaving it unanswered and up to our imagination.  So at best we can say that they became close, but that's as far as we can go. – Saphsaph 08:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Speaking of, iIrc that was the only episode in which we see T'Pol with long hair. Since we discuss hair and fashion on the page, anybody got a picture from that episode? – CraigG 12:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Watching right now, and she has long hair when she goes down to the planet as part of her disguise.  DhaliaUnsung 21:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Becuase this article is up for "Featured Article" consideration I thought I might ask if we can't figure out better terminology for when Trip and T'Pol had sex. Obviously it needs to be professional - I suggest sexual intercourse, how was this handled elsewhere? Or, as is always the option, should we delete any reference to this to begin with? Inquiring minds might want to know -Italianajt 19:41, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it 'really' matters what it is called, but I found an example of how it was handled elsewhere on the Ruby (602 Club) page. It's written as "intimate relations".  As for deleting it, why? DhaliaUnsung 01:57, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I changed it...and it does make a world of difference. -Italianajt 14:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Telepresence Unit
I changed the description of her work with the Telepresence Unit becuase, if my memory serves me well, the Aenar came aboard only after Phlox, Tucker and T'Pol had completed the machine. I also added Tucker as helping construct the device as one scene in particular shows ONLY Tucker working on the machine. --Italianajt 17:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Clothing Section
In an effort to complete the "clothing" section, I'm adding episodes that are missing as I go. I would like to ask if it is necessary to list every costume change. For example, several episodes have the same outfit listed more than once. "grey subcommander, orange catsuit, civilian clothes, orange catsuit".

I would suggest either just listing the clothing she wears once per episode OR if we want to show how often she changes clothes, we could add something along the lines of "subcommander (worn twice), orange catsuit (worn three times), etc".

What do you think?DhaliaUnsung 21:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was reading that section today. Wouldn't it be better only to note episodes in which we have a new article of clothing? I see up there you ask if it's necessary, personally, I don't think it's necessary as it clutters up the page a lot (even while hidden) and makes it a bit hard to read. :) &mdash; Morder 00:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Like this?

etc
 * Ambassadorial attire
 * Grey Vulcan Subcommander uniform
 * Auburn off-duty clothing (perhaps Vulcan meditational attire)
 * Red and blue undercover outfit
 * Auburn off-duty clothing (perhaps Vulcan meditational attire)
 * Red and blue undercover outfit
 * Red and blue undercover outfit

I skipped several episodes where she wore something previously mentioned. I quite like this idea since - as you say - this section could really fill up the page. -- DhaliaUnsung 00:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah...much better, maybe note that "this is the only episode in which this attire is seen" if that's the case. :) &mdash; Morder 00:40, 6 June 2009 (UTC]
 * For now, I am removing the "episode-by-episode" line until we can get the clothing section sorted out since right now it's just select episodes. -- DhaliaUnsung 19:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Long Hair
Several times T'Pol is seen with long hair and the only photo we have for her with long hair, you can't really see it, just long bangs. I think to help this be featured we need a long hair photo. As a suggestion maybe these. She also has long hair in and  and which would be nice because it isn't mirror T'Pol but I haven't had much luck find a long hair photo from those episodes. Even one from, though it's an alternate T'Pol would be nice. I don't have the capabilities for screen shots so if someone is willing to get a good photo from the episodes I mentioned (if we don't want to use these) that would be fantastic. -- DhaliaUnsung 15:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Featured article nomination
I find it to be a precise, well-written and thought-out, clear informational article about the character. I therefore hereby submit it for Featured Article status. – Crimsondawnhears you... 21:55, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * SUPPORT!!! Not to toot my own horn, but I've gone over it and cleaned up some glaring (and not so glaring) grammatical and syntax errors so I am seconding this article for nomination (can I do that?) -Italianajt 19:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed you can. In fact, this needs 5 supports in the minimum time in order to pass. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:39, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose: The "clothing" list in the background information section is incomplete! This should either be removed or completed, preferably before featured article status is granted. --Defiant 21:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, looks like there are half the episodes from season 1 and 3 of season 3 missing (including naked T'Pol in Harbinger!). I can certainly work on those these next few days.  But if everyone wants to remove the list (I vote keep it actually) I won't bother lol DhaliaUnsung 03:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The clothing list is all finished! -- DhaliaUnsung 14:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose - both myself and DhaliaUnsung have agreed that the "clothing" list could be improved if it listed how often T'Pol wore each outfit. As it is, the point of this section is completely lost on me, although it has (currently unrealized) potential. --Defiant 17:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I support this nomination. The T'Pol article has been very helpful to me in the past, when researching the character for various endeavors. I find it organized, and very informative. -- Remember The Girl 22:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - other than my clothing nitpick (see above), I find this article to have a repetitive sentence structure! Even though others might disagree with me and it is largely a very informative article, I feel this repeated structure draws me out of the article's meaning as the repetition is so prevalent. Although I've tried to introduce more variety of the sentence structures in this article, I still feel it could use a lot of work and would be willing to support the page if it didn't have so much of this repetition, as my clothing nitpick is just that - a trivial nitpick. I'm not sure what you call the type of sentence structure that this article uses time and again but this particular sentence (yes, the one you're reading right now!) is not an example of it whereas each of the previous sentences, in this comment of mine, are and it relates to how the sentence begins. --Defiant 11:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Support - Having personally made numerous changes to this article lately, I'm a lot happier with the majority of its content. The "clothing" section could still, IMO, be improved but that should not be a reason for preventing the article from achieving FA status as perfection is not required and the vast majority of this article is very informative and was so, even before the changes I made to it. --Defiant 02:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What would you suggest needs improvement on the clothing section. I admit that I feel a bit responsible for it!  What can I do to help?  -- DhaliaUnsung 16:42, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - Thought it was an informative article, though I must admit a lack of knowledge of Star Trek: Enterprise in general. Made me want to watch more of the show though. - Archduk3 22:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Not to be brain-dead about this, but seeing that this got five supports in July, was this made a Featured Article?--'Ello 'Ello 21:59, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. You can see whether articles are featured or not at the bottom of the article. Might be worth someone suggesting elsewhere that this be moved to a more prominent location. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:04, February 19, 2010 (UTC)