Talk:Tuvix

FA nomination (5 Aug - 16 Aug 2005, Successful)

 * For a one-time, character, this is remarkably well-written and descriptive in my opinion.--T smitts 21:43, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Tobyk777 02:44, 6 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - Although the article reads a fraction like an episode summary, all information is relevant to the character. --Defiant | Talk 12:37, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - I was a little reserved at first for the same reason but it is really nicely written and covers all the bases.--Scimitar 14:34, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Object, he only appeared in one episode, and not even a good one, how can you object to Picard and support this guy. Cabal
 * We have several examples of single appearance characters whose articles are featured (see: Telek R'Mor). We do not grade articles based on the quality of the episode the character appeared in, but on the quality of the article. I suggest that you please read and familiarize yourself with our featured article nomination policy. Thanks. --Alan del Beccio 22:38, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * On the basis that Cabal's objection has invalid reasoning, should this nomination go back to the "without objections" section? That's like opposing (for argument's sake) an episode summary only because you didn't like the episode, even if it's written like something worthy of a Pullitzer Prize.--Scimitar 01:02, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure we have any loopholes to refer to in this case. Policy states: "Votes for featured article candidates must be unanimous, or all objections must be resolved or withdrawn, before the nomination can be accepted and the article listed on the Featured Articles page." However, one note in our guidelines does note that the voter must: "Justify your objections. Don't just say you're opposed to the article being featured without giving a reason why you don't think the article should be featured. After all, without some sort of valid, actionable feedback, how can the article improve?" We may have to make some changes to our policies to account for ignorance. --Alan del Beccio 01:16, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Support, and you should look into our policy for nominating featured articles before voting. And Picard appeared in MANY episodes (a series!), which meant it was easier for him to be incomplete, missing the minor details acquired about the years. This page covers a character that appeared in one, and covers everything about that character in that one episode. - AJHalliwell 23:15, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * Support, this was a great charactre and I'm glad that and artcle was written as well as this could be made for him.--Kahless 19:31, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * Support, the user objecting has had time enough to retort. I say this be moved back up to the top. Jaf 00:46, 12 Aug 2005 (UTC)Jaf


 * Featured -- single opposition vote was unsupported nor did the user make any effort to contribute to improving the article, as per nomiation policies. --Alan del Beccio 05:50, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

FA removal (27 Aug - 30 Nov 2011, Failed)
In my opinion, this article should never have become an FA to begin with. There's some information lacking (such as relationship with the crew, time spent in Sandrines etc) but as you can see, I have also added a lot more background information and quotes to the article that weren't there before. Aside from the fact it was incomplete when nominated, my edits have changed it considerably from what it was back then so I think a new round of voting is required once the article has been worked on some more (which I will do over the coming days). --| TrekFan Open a channel 03:20, August 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * This article is and FeaturedPerson/35. A replacement should be suggested for AotW. -  18:49, August 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Archived. - 05:49, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Revert
OuroborosCobra, please explain your revert. Data should not be removed from articles on MA. This is an attempt to document all relevant Trek info. Jaf 02:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)Jaf
 * How is the episode related to the character?  There's no reference listed on that episode's page at all to him, so logically if the character was mentioned, there should be at least a reciprocal link.  Perhaps a mention of why that extra reference is there?  I'm guessing that was O's reasonaing. -- Sulfur 02:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

According to the Brax (Talaxian) article, Naomi brings it up. I have not seen the episode in a while, but that sounds familiar to me, I think it's accurate. Jaf 03:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)Jaf
 * I did not remember that conversation. Before I removed the reference, I both checked the episode article, and a transcript of the episode. When I checked the transcript, I looked for the word "Tuvix" and it did not show up. I thought I made it clear enough in the summary of my revert that I felt the reference had nothing to do with this article. After seeing your response on Naomi, I did a search of the transcript for conversations with her, and found you to be correct. I apologize, I thought it was an incorrect reference, I was not trying to remove something valid. Nobody's perfect. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  03:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case, we should also add the reference to the Homestead episode (I presume that was the episode where Naomi and Brax discussed it. I'll add that one in now that I've fixed all of the links that should have been to the episode that were to the character :) -- Sulfur 03:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's possible she refers to the incident without naming the character. Does someone have the script handy? Jaf 03:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)Jaf
 * I have the transcript, here is the quote:
 * NAOMI: And once, there was a transporter accident. Neelix and Commander Tuvok got combined to make a completely different person.
 * I missed it the first time because I did a word search for "Tuvix", which isn't there. When you said you thought there was a conversation with Noami, I was inspired to search for the word "transporter", and found that. As I said before, by bad. --OuroborosCobra talk |undefined  03:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * this should be worked into the article or something. you've got this on the main page as a feature, but when you get to the article the second reference to the character is only an episode link. you have to come into the talk page to figure out what it is all about.

2 or 3?
The article says: "Only one molecular pattern rematerialized, and formed a healthy organism combining everything regarding Tuvok and Neelix, including organs, enzymes, and memories." Shouldn't this section (as well as any others) also reflect that their patterns were also combined with the orchids they had sampled? Isn't that why Tuvix's original uniform was all floral-patterned up top when he materialized? (And off the subject, what happened to the container the orchids were in? I can see the orchids being combined somehow, at least they're organic, but the container?)  —   THOR  =/\= 17:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the floral pattern came from the outfit Neelix was wearing down on the planet. --The NCC Factor 18:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't the article say that the doctor was programed with the oath not that he swore an oath? I'm not a regular so I didn't want to change anything without asking?


 * Now this is a very interesting point. Should an EMH 'swear' the Hippocratic Oath when activated before it can actually function as an EMH or is programming the Oath enough? Is there any canon reference to this? -- Bakabaka 18:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The EMH swore the Hippocratic Oath at the end of "Darkling", although this was after "Tuvix"... Avengah 00:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thorough
Wow - what a thorough bunch you all are. First off, I'm really impressed and secondly I don't know the proper form here, so I'm going to put my suggestion in and hope you receive it in the constructive spirit in which it is intended. Two separate organisms combined into a single creature like that, rather than being a hybrid (implying some kind of sexual creation as I understand it) would be a chimera. This should not be confused with a symbiotic organism where two separate creatures dwell within the same body, for mutual benefit.

Having read all the comments, it rather makes me wish I'd seen the episode... or any of the episodes, in fact.


 * Your point makes lot of sense scientifically. However:
 * - 'Hybrid' was the term used in the episode;


 * - A chimera is an organism that incorporates two or more different DNA patterns (like parasitic twins for example), while the article states that Tuvix had only one DNA pattern. Therefore, Tuvix wouldn't qualify as a chimera;


 * - A chimera has regions within its body 'governed' by one type of DNA and other regions 'governed' by the other. As Tuvix was half-Vulcan and half-Talaxian 'all over', he again doesn't qualify as a chimera, but as a hybrid.


 * All of this, of course, iirc :) -- Bakabaka 18:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Back story?
I wonder if there is a back story to this episode. For example was the actor who plays Neelix going to be unavailable for part of the filming thus necessitating this "fusion" story line? Any comments from the writers on the conception and motivation behind this story? (JimD --- doesn't have an account here yet).


 * There are plenty of episodes where characters are completely absent, if Ethan Phillips was unavailable why not just plan an episode without him?? Did this episode air before or after ?? The choice to remain a 'hybrid' bears remarkable resemblance --T&#39;vana of the house of Kor 15:46, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

Tuvix = Tuvok + Neelix + alien orchid...
...at the start of the episode. However, at the end, when Tuvix is split again, where did the alien orchid go? You're left with just Tuvok and Neelix, but the orchid seems to have completely vanished. What's going on here? Avengah 05:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Conservation of mass
How is it possible that, when Tuvok and Neelix merged, the amount of matter taken up was roughly the same as previously? The only way I can think of it being possible is if Tuvix was denser than Tuvok or Neelix. That is, mass(Tuvix) = mass(Tuvok) + mass(Neelix). However, that still leaves some questions about how to separate Tuvix's memories. If they were both given copies of the memories after they were separated, then wouldn't mass have been created? 206.248.191.97 21:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a TV show... --OuroborosCobra talk 22:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a discussion on Talk:Transporter duplicate about this. 198.49.180.40 22:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And how come the orchid wasn't there when they were separated? Avengah 00:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe they digested it. --From Andoria with Love 16:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the reason we never saw it is because we never see anything that goes on over in waste extraction. --TribbleFurSuit 17:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Some thoughts on the topic of mass and some of the inconsistencies
Ok this is my very fist attempt at contributing to a discussion here, so I hope I don't mess it up. But I had some points I think most would fine interesting. On the subject of Tuvix's mass, my take would be that the coding of the 3 DNA patterns merged in a mathematical kind of way resulting in a brand new pattern. Much like how an equation works. The resulting pattern was then used to create a new lifeform. This all happened in an instant while Tuvok, Neelix, and the Orchid were all disassembled at a subatomic level during transport. The transporter reorganized the matter into that new lifeform using the the new pattern as a blueprint, and the rest of the organic matter was simply discarded as waste. It was organic matter without a pattern to organize it so maybe the transporter simply saw it as organic background noise.

I think that the new uniform was simply flash without substance. Being inorganic, it shouldn't have been affected and even if it were why would the transporter malfunction result in something aesthetically stylized as the floral pattern. It did seem to me to be a hybrid of neelix and tuvok's uniforms, but in a fashion sense rather than on a molecular level, and of coure transporters don't know the first thing about fashion. I think it was done that way just for the aesthetics and the writers or costume designers or who ever made that decision simply weren't thinking about the science of that particular detail.

The absence of the container I think was a simple oversight.

When Neelix and Tuvok were reassembled, the orchid was left out because they were only using the patterns of Neelix and Tuvok, they had no desire to re-create the orchid.

I have to say, though extremely short lived, Tuvix is my favourite char. the very concept of him is fascinating and the actor portrayed him perfectly in my opinion. The episode is also one of my all time favourites. I love the moral conundrum it presented, and I think it was presented perfectly.

Also, kinda a sidenote, but i think if anything like this were to REALLY happen, which of course is impossible, but IF it did I thin Tuvix would be a psychological mess. Everything about him biologicall could feasibly be just fine, but I think his concsiousness would be pretty much annihilated. Rather than having the memories and personality traits and knowdge of both Neelix and Tuvok, those aspects would be a hybrid as well. And I think the brain simply would not be able to make sense of it, and Tuvix would be a raving lunatic.

Tripgnosis 01:58, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Half Vulcan/Half Talaxian?
If Tuvix is a combination of Tuvok and Neelix, why is he half Talaxian when Neelix is 1/8 Mylean?


 * They probably generalized it based on appearance(much like Pres. Obama considers himself Black even though technically he is only half Black) but that does raise a good question as to whether that should be in the article.--31dot 20:40, June 28, 2011 (UTC)