Talk:Starfleet uniform (2250s-2260s)

Starfleet officer at Orion colony
Does anyone know what exactly is on this officers shoulders, the supposed "braided epaulets?" I know it is not very visible in this photo, but if it is at all visible in the episode, it would be something to add to Starfleet ranks and so on no matter what it is.--Tim Thomason 15:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's a screenshot of the epaulet that shows the different stripes of gold better. --Jörg 17:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Department color codes
In the text below the images, there's a fair bit of speculation, some confusing wording and a subjective opinion. However some of the info is useful. Perhaps this merits some clean-up? (I would do it, but don't want to tick anyone off. I notice some people are rather touchy around here.) --Sasoriza 10:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I tackled it. There were notes about the "unfortunate" aesthetic quality of the later TMP beige uniforms (how off topic is that?), speculation about green dress uniforms (never seen in this era, but likely), speculation about a security department (security was never mentioned until after pilots, so why speculate), speculation about dress uniform colors (likely, but unsourced, they never appeared), etc
 * Sorry if we can be touchy here, Sas - I can tell that you think so from your user page. I can tell you, some other Star Trek wikis I've been to have problems with touchiness, deletionism and elitism. All the admins of all the Star Trek wikis should work on that. -- Captain M.K.B. 18:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Much of this criticism and cleanup is well received. However, while "security" personnel were not specifically mentioned in either the Cage or WNMHGB, they were clearly seen performing such "guard" duties as duplicated by redshirts during TOS. e.g. guard stationed by the bridge door, guard holding the only weapon on a prisoner. Therefore, the distinction as canonically defined during this period to 2265 as to patch and uniform color differences is applicable. There were guards, they wore blue shirts with "support/operations" insignia. Speculation would involve theorizing why. --Dogg 23:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Disctinction should be made as to the variants of uniform division color and different division patch insignia. In particular, Command division colored uniforms are seen with operations/support insignia, particularly in the Cage. WNMHGB has support division colored shirts with sciences insignia and science division colored shirts with support insignia. Though speculation should be kept to a minimum, the disparities are clearly present and should be accounted for under canon explanations.--Dogg 23:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed

 * "Montgomery Scott, Engineers and more than a few unlucky away team Ensigns wore red shirts."

I removed the above statement. It was written very informally and doesn't seem to belong anyway. If it does belong then it needs to be rewritten. – Morder 16:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Background Info
Needs an edit? Seems to be a copy of the 2266- uniform article. For instance, "The Cage" uniforms were not in use "in the third season". Joeloveland 16:58, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Rank insignia
The rank insignia noted here aren't entirely correct. The hash marks on the CPO insignia is more squared-off than angled (see ). Also, non-CPO enlisted stripes of some sort were seen; two crewman wore on their field coats, distinct from Colt's stripe-free sleeves. Also, the insignia of full commanders once captains wear two stripes hasn't been established. --98.204.140.83 12:05, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Rename
I'm suggesting this page, and the few after it, be renamed to better reflect the time in which these uniforms were worn. "Mid 23rd century" covers entire decades, and we only know these were worn from 2254 to at least 2268. Since there isn't any "hard" date for the start and end of the time these were used, with 2250s being more accurate with what we know, I think the suggested title for this page would be a better option than what we currently have.

As for the other pages, since this page would be renamed, the pages after it would also be renamed to better reflect the changes here. The Early 2270s uniform would move to the "Mid 2270s", since the TOS uniform was used at least until 2270 and would be renamed to end with the loose date of "Early 2270s". Assuming that the arrowhead was used by all of Starfleet because of the Enterprise, it only makes sense that the earliest the TMP uniforms could have been used was after the ship returned to Earth, and we didn't see those uniforms until at least late 2272, so using "Mid" simply places it after "Early" but before "Late". The TOS uniforms would remove the hard date of 2265 in the title, as the previous style of uniform was still in use for years to come, making that pages tile start date "Mid 2260s". This is much the same reasoning that was used for the use of "late 2360s-early 2370s" for the DS9/VOY uniforms.- 19:52, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

New Division Symbol?
I recently took a look at the Cage HD, and discovered something I hadn't noticed before on the DVD ... there is a new division symbol that appears on two characters -- the guy with the clipboard who stands next to Pike on the Bridge in the opening, and the Security officer stationed at the elevator entrance (both of whom enigmatically interact with each other as Pike leaves). I had assumed it was the standard backwards "?" due to the lower resolution (and I did look). But this is clearly a unique "C" shape. If this is in fact to be included in canon wiki, should it be considered a division of operations, much like Nurse Chapel has a red cross medical symbol as part of sciences? The presumption here is that despite wearing blue shirts (as does Leslie in WNMHGB performing duties of Security), they are actually serving as support personnel, security, etc. I'm not exactly sure what the guy with the clipboard in the Cage does, but it's entirely possible he's a security chief.

Assignment Patches
Following recent observations from the BluRay release, some changes to the Assignment Patch Cart are in order: Most notably, is the addition in 2254 of the mysterious "C" division symbol, previously thought to be the operations backwards "?" on the lower resolution DVD images. This is seen only on two characters presumably serving the services of security, one guarding the door, and the other interacting with him, stationed next to Pike during "time warp" and holding a clipboard. He is seen handing Pike a sheet of paper, which Pike declines, and otherwise stands at attention. The other changes apply to 2265 in which Kirk's Yeoman is seen wearing command "gold" but with a backwards "?" division patch, which is assigned primarily to sciences in WNMHGB. The other change is Leslie who seen guarding Gary Mitchell, wearing a blue Sciences uniform with what appears to be the "o" division patch, which in WNMHGB has been reassigned to Operations (makes sense). This also makes sense assuming Security in the original pilot also wore blue. In the lower resolution DVD this appeared as a backwards "?" division patch already in use as the new Sciences division patch. But this should be verified against a clearer shot in the bluray, as lighting could be obscuring the "tail" of the backward "?" sciences logo.

Therefore, I have updated the charts accordingly, and using the assumption that Security is a function of Operations, have included the use of that assignment patch under the correct department regardless of shirt color. So Operations spans blue and beige in this case. The Cage makes a bit more sense as Command gold has both operations and command patches, but it's a little less clear in WNMHGB since both gold and blue shirts wear both the Command and re-assigned to sciences operations patches. So best to assume as little as possible, especially since both patches appear on both colors suggesting command duties and science division duties were interchangeable, while operations division provided support only to the other divisions, and had no command duties? Or it's possible we just never saw such a combination. Either way, this represents the observed variations.--Dogg (talk) 22:04, November 14, 2012 (UTC)