Talk:Retard

Abbreviation
We probably could "class" this page up a bit...since "retard" is as much an abbreviation of "mental retardation" as it is a slang or derogatory term. --Alan del Beccio 01:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

definition
to hold back. it's not necessarily name-calling. put it back. --Babaganoosh 12:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter, it was a personal observation that does not relate to the canon usage of the word and does not belong in an encyclopedia entry. Thus, it has been removed again. If you wish it to be re-added, it needs to be discussed here first. --From Andoria with Love 12:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hrm... I thought I had already started a discussion about this here, but I guess I was wrong. Oh, well, it still needs to be discussed before the info is re-added. --From Andoria with Love 13:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Annnd protected due to "vandalism", as requested. --From Andoria with Love 13:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

apparently, you guys have something against me. I "classed" it up, made it more clinical, It's not my observation. Bashir said it himself; they've been held back, not allowed to funtion as normal, productive members of society.--Babaganoosh 13:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

NOW I can start name-calling! I'll cite examples all day of observations that don't belong on the site and you'll probably claim that they belong there because they're all made by you. --Babaganoosh 13:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No, it's nothing against you; the fact remains that, while they could be seen as retarded, they were not referred to as such. In other words, it is a personal observation. Meaning it should not be included, but nontheless should be discussed to see if others agree or disagree. Hence, the protection. --From Andoria with Love 13:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If you've got a quote for that to support it, paste it in here, and it'll all be good. -- Sulfur 13:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have re-added the info for the time being since I did fail to bring it up for discussion when I first removed it. In the meantime... discuss! You already know my opinion... anyone else? --From Andoria with Love 13:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I am relatively new here, but I just...simply cannot see the need for an entry labeled under "Retard." How often are people going to come to MA and search for "Retard?"  Sure, They're also not going to search for, say, "tube grub" very often, either, but that's a fun, esoteric part of the Star Trek universe.  "Retard" just seems, to me, a bit...crass, and lacking in essential "Trek quality."  – Lotus000 04:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree but since it was mentioned in ST:IV, IMO, the site should have it. There's negro on the site... --Babaganoosh 04:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * After looking at the quote again, I'd be hard pressed to say there shouldn't be an entry. This is in no way affected by the fact that the quote in and of itself is damn hilarious...'– Lotus000 04:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

proof positive
''That's not right. There are reasons why DNA resequencing is illegal. There are reasons why people like us are barred from serving in Starfleet. We have an advantage. Normal people can't compete. It's not fair.''

No, they just won't let us do anything that's worth doing -- they're afraid we're going to take over.

''I will not be part of the society that locked me away for being too smart. No.''

Jack to Bashir

''They all suffered unintended side-effects. By the time they were five or six years old, their	parents had to come forward and admit that they'd broken the law so their children could get treatment.''

''She thought they might respond to meeting someone who was like them, but was living a normal life. She's hoping that someday they'll be able to live on their own and be productive.''

Bashir to senior staff

Besides, we're not talking about excluding them, we're talking about putting certain limits on what they're allowed to do.

O'Brien to senior staff

''Do you hear yourself? That's exactly the kind of thinking that makes people afraid of us.''

Bashir to Jack

--Babaganoosh 13:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You do of course realize that the characters were referring to Bashir, Jack and the others being augments... not retards. Those quotes had nothing to do with their intelligence, it had to do with their genetic engineering. --From Andoria with Love 14:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

excellent compromise!
Thank you. That was awesome. I do appreciate it.--Babaganoosh 13:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

another compromise?
How's about renaming the article "retardation"? Much more clinical and professional sounding title than the one I originally chose.--Babaganoosh 04:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the issue his here? The term "retard" was used, so just leave it at that. The article itself looks acceptable, however, I don't understand why the DS9 reference is included here...--Alan del Beccio 04:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The DS9 reference is included because Babagnoosh believed that the quotes he posted above had something to do with retardation. In actuality, they have nothing to do with retardation, but are in fact discussing augmentation and the ethics of genetic engineering. As I stated above, the quotes were referring to the fact that "Bashir, Jack and the others were augments... not retards. Those quotes had nothing to do with their intelligence, it had to do with their genetic engineering." People were not afraid that they were retards (neither Jack or Lauren can even be classified as retarded), they were afraid because they were augmented to be smarter... better than they would be before. Better... strong... faster. So, um, yeah... take that as you will. ;) --From Andoria with Love 12:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah -- the assumption here is that Jack et al, with their mental "abnormalities" fit into someone's clinical definition of "retardation" even though they weren't referred to as being "retarded" on the show. Seeing as the technical, clinical definition of "retardation" changes year after year, i can't see this lasting. its only a matter of time before a smart copyeditor takes it out, because it already seems out of place to us... for example, Serena and Patrick seemed to be portrayed as having differing degrees of autism, which is constantly argued these days as being a "developmental" or "learning disability" -- which many professionals prefer to separate from your classic "mental retard" ("retardation" being a term that is definitely on its way out the door as more descriptive terms enter our language). I think we should delete everything except the ST4 reference of the slang term... -- Captain M.K.B. 14:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm in agreement with Mike. Just check out the Wikipedia articles on subjects such as mental retardation or autism or Asperger syndrome, and especially their corresponding talk pages, to see some of the current controversy that he mentions first hand. Could I see some kids in grade school calling Patrick, Jack, Lauren, or Sarina "retard" out of ignorance or sheer meanness? Sure I could. But that doesn't mean they were retards, and since they were never mentioned as such, they shouldn't be referenced in the article. Without a direct reference, it's speculation. -- Renegade54 16:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)