Talk:Main character non-appearances

PNA
PNA-incomplete - Several characters are still missing nonappearancs - including, but not limited to, Quark, Pavel Chekov, Jake Sisko, Jadzia Dax, Miles O'Brien, and any additional non-appearances from the casts of Star Trek: The Animated Series, Star Trek: Enterprise and Star Trek: Voyager. --Alan del Beccio 09:46, 12 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Changing Cast Members
I added the fact that Worf and Seven of Nine didn't appear until they became cast members and that Kes didn't appear after she left (except ), but it was removed. If we don't want to consider them non-appearances until they become cast members, that's fine, but then should be removed from the TOS people; none of them were regular cast members yet. Either remove The Cage or revert back to my edit- one or the other, just wanted to see what you people thought. -Platypus Man 20:42, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's perfectly acceptable to keep these facts; it would be useful for someone who may have started watching DS9 or VOY in random order and may want to know when a character left or first appeared. I've added this content back, and slightly modified it to conform to what was done for Beverly and Wesley Crusher in the TNG section. -- SmokeDetector47undefined 21:02, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with your view of things -- DS9 Season 1, 2, 3 etc should be listed for Worf's non-appearances, or at least noted somehow. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 21:03, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Is it true that none of the voyager cast appear in Message in a Bottle? (anon)
 * Um, no... where'd you hear that? --From Andoria with Love 03:52, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)


 * My bad. I put the wrong episode. None of the Voyager characters technically appear in, as everyone is plays a hologram of their main character, even The Doctor (except Roxann Dawson/B'Elanna Torres- she was in labor, so she wasn't in it anyway.) -Platypus Man | Talk 03:59, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we include "Living Witness" in each of the Voyager character's lists, but with "only as a hologram" beside them - instead of the disclaimer at the top? Because Roxann Dawson is the anomaly to this, it doesn't apply to all the Voyager characters. I'll edit - revert if you want, but I think it makes sense. (BTW, they were all holograms in Living Witness, created with the historian's holographic technology.)


 * Perhaps rather than the current format, we could change it to have a notation that says, ex: Tasha Yar died after Season 1: Skin of Evil, or Dr. Crusher left the ship during season 2, or something like that. I interpreted the title to mean non appearances in which a character is absent for an individual episode for no explained reason, like Data in "Family", not episodes before a character was added to the show, or after they left the cast. -Cpthunt 02:51, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Updates
I've gone over the TNG and DS9 sections and added (and in a few cases removed) any missing episodes I could identify. My procedure was to start from scratch by creating listings from the episode scripts, and then check the episodes themselves in all cases in which these listings showed discrepancies with the listings here or on IMDb (which I've been updating in parallel). This means that I'm reasonably sure that all episodes now listed are valid, however there may still be episodes missing - namely if the characters had scenes in the script which didn't make it into the final cut AND were not yet listed as missing either here or on IMDb, in which case they would have slipped through my net. TeraBlight 18:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I haven't updated the listing for Jake Sisko yet - he only appears in 70 out of 173 episodes, so it does seem somewhat silly to list the ones he missed. Opinions? TeraBlight 18:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I would support listing the episodes in which he does appear. I agree with you that it does seem somewhat silly. Willie 20:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Problem is, he is listed in the credits as part of the main cast. He is not a side character. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, he's a main character and needs to be dealt with on this page somehow. Simply listing the episodes in which he did appear here would be more logical, looking at the numbers, but also very confusing.

A possibility would be to explicitly list the 70 appearances on the character page and then, instead of putting the inverse listing here, simply say something like "character did not appear in 103 episodes, see Jake Sisko for episodes in whih he did appear". TeraBlight 23:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Another option would be, since he often didn't appear in blocks of episodes, to list all missed episodes but use ranges wherever possible to keep the list reasonably short, along the lines of


 * (2x04) - (2x08)

This would reduce the linecount from 103 to 45... TeraBlight 23:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I've gone with the latter suggestion for now. It's not pretty but complete and reasonably compact. TeraBlight 10:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's really not "pretty". It's also not really complete, because a reader would have to look up the exact episodes contained in that block (in the example above: 2x05, 2x06, 2x07) elsewhere. That just adds another step to find information. A better solution would be to just use the available "Appearances" script. However, just like the "character appearances" lists, this article might something better be merged to the individual character articles anyway. -- Cid Highwind 11:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Did you unindent my comments? Why? Are there conventions that I'm not aware of?
 * Re completeness, it's no less complete than simply saying "Season n", which is done for many of the other characters, isn't it? 128.12.132.170 18:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, an "appearance" would include an appearance as a hologram, changeling, mirror counterpart, etc. A "non appearance" would be if the character had no original footage filmed or lines spoken in the episode (i.e. stock footage could count as a non-appearance). – 71.163.227.237 16:07, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Uhura in The Empath?
I'm fairly sure Uhura is in The Empath. I don't own a copy of the episode to double check this, but I'm almost certain she is in the background of a scene on the bridge. She has her back to the camera, no lines of dialogue and not in the credits, but I'm sure she is there. Can someone please confirm this?

Confirmed: the woman sitting at communications during The Empath as a Caucasian woman--not Uhura (although she is wearing red).--GSchnitzer 17:58, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

No lines?
Should we really add appearances without lines in this article? The actor/ actress appeared in this episode, ok, without dialogue, but they are in it. And the title "non-appearances" confuse me, this seems not right. – Tom 16:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they should be removed. As you pointed out, this is "non-appearances".– Cleanse 00:01, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed all appearances without lines. As the header says: This is a list of non-appearances. – Tom 07:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Holograms and Hallucinations
Episodes like "Frame of Mind" are listed in which certain characters appeared "only as an hallucination" or as a character on the holodeck. Does this really count as a non-appearance?--Moggy 21:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I would say so. This is a list of character non-appearances, not actors. If I have a cardboard cut-out of you at my party, does that mean you were at my party?--Trebligoniqua 20:41, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Kes in Manoeuvres
Not 100% sure about this one but I'm pretty sure Kes appears without dialogue in a sickbay scene towards the end of "Manoeuvres", after Chakotay has been retrieved. – Skteosk 01:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * There are no scenes in Sickbay at the end of but she actually had a speaking roll in that episode early in it &mdash; Morder 02:51, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. I was probably getting mixed up with another episode (possibly ). I just remember reading somewhere that she wasn't in it then watching the episode and finding out that she was. – Skteosk 20:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge/Split suggestion
The individual listings should be located on the individual character articles (where they will be expected). See also: Talk:Wesley Crusher, where possible "space-saving" formats are being discussed. -- Cid Highwind 18:32, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Support, though I'm not opposed to this page still existing after the info is copied/adapted to the character articles, since it might still be helpful to have the info in one place as well. - 23:14, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

One such "space-saving" format has now been used for the Wesley Crusher article (revision link). Information is taken from this article, so won't need to be copied again. -- Cid Highwind 23:17, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose: such a page might still be useful as a reference even if an appearances section is mentioned on each character page. I would not opt for removing this reference that has everything conveniently summarized in one page. Let me also add that the former issue of Wesley Crusher hasnt even been sufficiently discussed yet by others. The community consists of more people than you and Duke. How about giving it some time and letting some other users bud in instead of just the two of you making decisions for everyone. – Distantlycharmed 23:24, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose: in agreement with Distantlycharmed. --Defiant 16:36, March 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I can see the value in having all this information together, even if it is on each character's page.  I certainly don't think that Cid and Archduk are trying to impose their views everywhere, however.--31dot 19:04, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Harry Kim/Miles O'Brien
I keep seeing parentheses information about appearances of actors as their character only as a hologram, illusion, dream, parallel universe, etc. Shouldn't it be noted that Harry and Miles are not exactly the same as their counterpart. Miles O'Brien is younger (sort of) from his doppelganger while the other Harry already died and the Harry doppelganger and Naomi replaces their counterparts in the other Voyager.

And they may not appear as their original character (from that point on in the series) but as a person from an alternate timeline or split dimension.

Although it was stated in the episode Deadlock that both Voyagers are the same except for a rendered action or decision that creates an alternate reality from that point on. But then again, it was explained in that episode that both Voyager exist in the same space and time. But I also remember watching an episode of The Next Generation that an action or decision made creates a splitting of realities or a parallel universe.


 * It's noted in their articles; it isn't a "non-appearance" of the character as the character's existence was continued. Dream sequences or other universes are not the same character.--31dot 19:59, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sulu in "The Immunity Syndrome"
I think that Sulu appears (without speaking) in a meeting set in the conference room. He's closest (or one of the closest) to the camera, with his back to it. You can see it's him for a moment at the end of the meeting when he gets up to leave.


 * If he was, he wasn't in the credits list, per . Nor is he listed as having appeared on his article. Do you have a screenshot to share?--31dot 03:34, September 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * No Sulu in The Immunity Syndrome. (But the command lieutenant in the briefing room scene is an Asian gentleman who does indeed look a lot like Sulu.)--GSchnitzer 17:49, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

M'Ress
M'Ress is listed as having 16 non-appearances in TAS. The whole series consisted of 22 episodes. If she appeared in just six out of 22 episodes, is she properly considered a main character? Sounds more like a recurring character.