Talk:Observer Effect (episode)

FA nomination (18 Feb - 26 Feb 2005, Success)

 * "Observer Effect". I tried to make this a good page, I think I succeeded. Has detailed information and pictures. --Defiant | Talk 15:11, 18 Feb 2005 (GMT)
 * Seeing the episode may take less time then reading the description here ;-) But really EXCELLENT work, very extended write-up of the episode, and you picked some good accompanying images. Keep up the fantastic work! Ottens 16:08, 18 Feb 2005 (GMT)
 * Supported. Tyrant 19:19, 21 Feb 2005 (GMT)Tyrant
 * Supported, however, I find it humorous that there are red reference links at the bottom of the page. I say give it one more day. --Gvsualan 04:40, 25 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Renomination while still an FA (09 July 2005)
"Observer Effect" A wonderful, detailed, and ilustrated article about an important episode. The person who writes the episode desciptions which go: Teaser, act 1 act 2, etc. is really good. I think that each and every episode he or she does should be nominated. I have nominated every one which I have found. It seems that every artcile in this format is orginized, detailed, ilustrated, compelete, and perfect. Whoever you are, keep it up! User:Tobyk777 9 July, 2005

FA removal (May - Aug 2006 Failed)
Observer Effect I went to write up this article for the Article of the Week and I was stunned to find that before my edit there was no mention of anywhere in the article or Background info. When I started reading the article I was surpised at the lack of linking in some areas; with such an in-depth episode description you can scroll a whole screen without a link. It's important to re-link to major concepts every so often to help nav, IMO. Also, I cannot be the only one who finds the use of "Travis", "Reed", "Mayweather", and "Malcolm" confusing. It needs to be consistently one way or the other, I think, because the use of quotes immediately makes you re-read the name instead of associating it with the characters as normal. For a moment it seems like four characters with four names. Perhaps even an alien-name or "Organian Travis" or something? Finally, I went to look for the vote-record on this nomination and couldn't find it...not on the talk page where they are usually placed after being successful, anyway. Logan 5 21:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You make good points. Take it off the list for now, clean it up, then put it back. --Bp 19:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Definitely remove this one if no nomination can be found. -- Cid Highwind 20:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The article was nominated between the 18th and 27th of February 2005. I think it was nominated before the practice of adding nominations to talk pages was implemented. Also, I've cleaned up the references to the hosts throughout the episode (and article), so that each one is called a singular name while they are under Organian influence. --Defiant 11:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Telepathy?
Based on dialog the Organian inhabiting T'pol while the other was in Archer was the one that was in T pol while the other one was in the doctor, yet he/she refers to having inhabiting the doctor as having been an interesting experience. May indicate some kind of telepathy going on between the two while they were out side of host, however, if they could do that I'm not sure why they would need host to talk at all... Tyrant 02:34, 24 Jan 2005 (CET)

Revert
I removed this paragraph from the background information, it seemed too personal and critical for the remit of MA.
 * Unfortunately, like many other things, Enterprise failed to achieve the level of quality seen by another Trek series with "bottle shows" such as (often cited as one of the finest Trek episodes to date) and  (nominated for an Emmy).
 * Zsingaya Talk 10:06, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Also, the use of " " to show where the Organians are was misused once, so I reverted that as well (they made out that the Sickbay wasn't the real Sickbay). Zsingaya Talk 10:12, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Silicon-based life forms
A timeline nitpick. In this episode, the crew learn that they have encountered a silicon-based virus and at one point, Trip tells Archer that in his (Trip's) exobiology training, he'd learned that the human immune system could not fight silicon-based pathogens. His comment suggests that silicon-based organisms were a known phenomenon in the ENT era, and even if they weren't the NX-01 crew definitely encounters them in this episode. This conflicts with what we learn in the TOS episode, "Devil in the Dark," in which McCoy clearly states that, while theoretically possible silicon-based life is unknown to science. Possible ways of getting around it that I can think of: (1) The organians alter the NX-01 crew's memories to a greater extent than is explicitly indicated in the episode; (2) Silicon-based cellular organisms are impossible, but viruses don't count as life under McCoy's definition; (3) McCoy was speaking colloquially and actually meant that multi-celled silicon organisms were unknown, while viruses and/or bacteria weren't; (4) Some other distinction between what is known to science and what is possible in theory is at work here. --Josh 67.241.8.112 16:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Viruses are not life forms or organisms. --TribbleFurSuit 18:51, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Organian Test
This question might already been asked, but I did try and check the forums and couldn't see a forum so...

I just watched the Enterprise Episode,. This is where the Organians control the bodies of various crew members in order to observe the crew's reaction to an unexpected event, the release of a silicon based virus onto the ship. If a species passes, then First Contact between that species and the Organians is begun.

However, having thought about it, I don't think it's passable. The Klingon captain refuses to allow the infected crewmen on the ship, and destroys the shuttle - they failed. The Cardassians also killed the infected, although it took longer for them to do that than the Klingons - they also failed. Archer et al. stuns the aliens by attempting to de-fibrillate Hoshi after she dies, as apparently no other species in 10,000 years has tried to save a crew member after it is obviously pointless - yet according to one of the aliens, he fails.

The test is supposed to be a test of rational thought - it's not rational to welcome the crew and let the virus kill everyone. If killing the infect quickly is wrong (Klingon) and doing so after a while (Cardassian) is also wrong, and trying to save the crewmen when yo have a cure (Human) is wrong, can anyone think of the "right" response? I wondered, briefly, if the correct answer was not to go to the planet in the first place. But then, there would be no test - that can't be right either. Can anyone help? --Hansel 22:34, April 6, 2009


 * I can think of two possibilities: First, actually succeeding in curing the crewmembers (which wouldn't exactly be "rational thought"), and second, scanning the landing sites from orbit and discovering the Silicon virus before sending a landing party down (which would mean the test was over as soon as someone was infected).    Maybe someone else will have an idea of the Organian's idea of passing from my starting point.  Izkata 03:16, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Compare Observer Effect to The Empath
I'm not sure if it would belong in the article or not, but I've noticed that this episode seems to have a plot vaguely similar to. In both cased, two beings were testing the worthiness of a species, and in both cases they believed the subject species they were testing failed and they weren't going to save them. In, the Vians were testing to see if Gem's people had the ability to place the survival needs of another above their own (i.e. sacrificing themselves to save another), and they believe that Gem failed because she healed McCoy without herself dying in the process. The Vian were going to allow Gem's race to die. Likewise, the Organians in Observer Effect (the supervising Organian specifically), believed that humans were little different than other species despite Archer risking his life for Sato and Tucker and the Organians were still going to let the three of them die, thought for different reasons than the Vians. In the case of both episodes, the captain/series lead had to convince the Vians or Organians, respectively, to show compassion. Compare the two episodes. The endings of both seem to be similar, either by design or fate.


 * Such a comparison can only be in the article if there is documentation on it- such as a statement from the writers that they had the other episode in mind or were deliberately attempting to draw a similarity between the two, or a comment from anyone else involved in Trek discussing such a thing. --31dot 19:29, February 2, 2010 (UTC)